[00:00:05] Gary London: This is an interview for the Nordic American Voices Oral History Project at the National Nordic Museum. Today is October 19th, 2024. We are at the museum, and we will be interviewing Kathy Halgren. My name is Gary London, and with us today are

[00:00:33] Brandon Benson: Brandon Benson

[00:00:35] Eleanor Boba: Eleanor Boba

[00:00:37] Gary London: Thank you. Thank you again, Kathy, for agreeing to be interviewed.

[00:00:41] We appreciate it greatly. Would you begin by giving us your full name, your date of birth, and place of birth?

[00:00:48] Katherine Halgren: Catherine Halgren, uh, born in Seattle, Washington in August of, August 1st,

[00:00:57] Gary London: 1950. Okay. And-

[00:00:59] Katherine Halgren: In Seattle, okay.

[00:01:02] Gary London: We'd like to connect you to your, to your Nordic roots. Can you tell us a bit about that?

[00:01:08] Katherine Halgren: My father came from Sweden when he was in his 20s, and one thing I remember that I am kind of disappointed about was we were taught that it wasn't good to learn twoing, two s- languages when you were young, so we didn't speak Swedish at home.

[00:01:30] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:01:30] Katherine Halgren: But I wish we would've.

[00:01:32] Gary London: Um- Do you know why your father came?

[00:01:35] Katherine Halgren: He wanted to earn some money and go back.

[00:01:39] Gary London: It was his plan to return.

[00:01:40] Katherine Halgren: Yeah, it was his re- plan to return. Uh, but he fell in love with my mother.

[00:01:47] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:48] Katherine Halgren: And that stopped him from going back until... When I was born, he went over. His mother was ill, so he went back to Sweden then to see her.

[00:02:00] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:01] Katherine Halgren: And the travel then, when you think you can go there in a, less than a day, and he was traveling across the United States, and then by boat to Sweden, so it took quite a while. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:14] Gary London: Uh, did he ever talk about being homesick for Sweden?

[00:02:20] Katherine Halgren: No, he never talked about it, and he talked about the cold and the dark.

[00:02:28] Gary London: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:29] Katherine Halgren: So I think he was ... When I went to Alaska and, and was so excited about it, it reminded me so much of Norway and Sweden. And he, no, he didn't wanna go. He didn't wanna visit. He'd had enough of that cold and that dark.

[00:02:44] Gary London: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:48] Katherine Halgren: But I'm sure he missed his family.

[00:02:50] Gary London: Yeah. So were you acquainted at all with his parents?

[00:02:56] Katherine Halgren: Not with his parents. Both of them, his father passed away when he was six, uh, killed in a accident where the, he was coming home with the supplies and the... Apparently, he'd fallen asleep, and the horses were taking him home, but went too fast around a corner and dumped the load, which landed on t- him, and he passed away that night.

[00:03:19] Gary London: Oh.

[00:03:20] Katherine Halgren: Uh, my mother, grandmother passed away when I was two years old.

[00:03:25] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:03:26] Katherine Halgren: So, in Sweden, so I never met her either. Yeah. I did meet my aunt and uncle, his sister and brother.

[00:03:34] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:34] Katherine Halgren: And their children.

[00:03:36] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:36] Katherine Halgren: And then this month, went back to visit them again, and it was quite interesting how tight the community is.

[00:03:46] Not many people have left the community.

[00:03:50] Gary London: What, what's the name of

[00:03:51] Katherine Halgren: the community? Lillpite.

[00:03:52] Gary London: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:03:53] Katherine Halgren: Up in Norrbotten. And I think I'm related to everyone in that town, and if I'm not related to them, I'm related to their neighbors.

[00:04:04] Gary London: Probably be a good idea to get some names in the record here. Uh, your father's name was?

[00:04:10] Katherine Halgren: Sven Ingemar

[00:04:12] Gary London: Halgren. Mm-hmm. And how about the grandparents? Do you know their names?

[00:04:16] Katherine Halgren: Uh, Hannah Augusta and, boy, I should know his name.

[00:04:24] Gary London: That's fine

[00:04:27] Katherine Halgren: I can't come up with it right now. That's

[00:04:28] Gary London: fine. Any stories your father told you about his life in Sweden?

[00:04:35] Katherine Halgren: The thing that I remember hearing as a child was they ate the tree bark.

[00:04:41] Oh. And to me, I just didn't understand what you could do with tree bark, and I imagined them maybe boiling it into a soup or some- Oh ... I just couldn't understand. And then this time when I went over, I asked about it. Well, they ground the bark down to like a flour.

[00:04:58] Gary London: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:04:58] Katherine Halgren: And used it for their bread.

[00:05:00] Gary London: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:05:00] Katherine Halgren: So that made sense to me then, but eating tree bark when you're a child just didn't sound right.

[00:05:07] Gary London: Yeah. Sug- suggestive of perhaps a certain level of poverty, right?

[00:05:14] Katherine Halgren: Yes, yes. Yeah. The family had a farm, and had a horse, and some chickens, and were self-sufficient. Mm-hmm. Um, they had lots of weaving, as I think all Swedish homes had.

[00:05:30] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:31] Katherine Halgren: And, uh, basically did what they could off the land.

[00:05:37] Gary London: Yeah. So is the farm still in the family?

[00:05:40] Katherine Halgren: No. No, it's not in the family, but it's, uh ... The people that own it were very gracious to invite us in, show us the area, show us the baking house where my father had, as a young boy, had written his name on the ceiling.

[00:05:59] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:00] Katherine Halgren: They'd taken the building apart, moved it, re- you know, rebuilt it, but it was still there. So that was- That's nice ... exciting to see it. When we went, they were saying, "Well, it's been rebuilt. We don't know if it's still there," but we found it, so that was kind of fun. And it was, I think, the only name that was on the ceiling.

[00:06:19] Gary London: Yeah. And you met your father's brother and sister, you said?

[00:06:25] Katherine Halgren: Yes. Yeah.

[00:06:26] Gary London: Yes. Do you have their names at the, at your tongue?

[00:06:28] Katherine Halgren: Ruth, Ruth and Berta.

[00:06:30] Gary London: Okay.

[00:06:31] Katherine Halgren: I mean, Ruth and Simon. Ruth was Simon's wife. Simon was the brother. Berta was the-

[00:06:43] Aunt, and his, her husband was, I think, Emil

[00:06:50] Gary London: Okay

[00:06:50] Katherine Halgren: He died fairly young also

[00:06:53] Gary London: Okay

[00:06:53] Katherine Halgren: So I didn't meet him

[00:06:55] Gary London: Yeah. So what was it like meeting these folks?

[00:07:01] Katherine Halgren: Ah

[00:07:10] Was it like meeting them? Very, uh... I guess I had a lot of questions.

[00:07:16] Gary London: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:17] Katherine Halgren: And, um, wanted to get to know them, and, and, uh, we stayed with Aunt, my Aunt Bertha, and, uh

[00:07:33] But how it felt, I guess it felt like home.

[00:07:35] Eleanor Boba: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:37] Katherine Halgren: Yeah. Felt very close, very comfortable

[00:07:43] Gary London: And they were all conversing in English?

[00:07:46] Katherine Halgren: No.

[00:07:47] Gary London: Oh.

[00:07:47] Katherine Halgren: No. And my mother knew Swedish, some Swedish, and any Swedish she didn't know she pronounced with a Swedish accent. But nowadays, yes, they all speak English- Yeah ... very well.

[00:08:00] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:08:00] Katherine Halgren: We met one of the tour guides, and he said he learned most of it from playing games.

[00:08:06] Gary London: Huh.

[00:08:06] Katherine Halgren: And it was in English, so he learned English that way- Yeah ... and he was very proficient at it. Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:13] Gary London: So your, your family in Sweden was able to converse with you in English?

[00:08:18] Katherine Halgren: Yes. Yeah. Now they are.

[00:08:19] Gary London: They were-

[00:08:20] Katherine Halgren: Back, back in '72 when I first went, the older folks, no.

[00:08:25] Oh,

[00:08:26] Gary London: yeah.

[00:08:26] Katherine Halgren: The, only the younger kids. And then my cousin and I stayed, we're I think a year or two apart, and we stayed in close contact over the years. Yeah.

[00:08:37] Gary London: Uh, when you visited Sweden for the first time, was there anything that surprised you? Did Sweden pretty much match your expectations, or?

[00:08:49] Katherine Halgren: Yeah, I think it met my expectations.

[00:08:52] Um, maybe the amount of farmland I may have been surprised by. But, um No, otherwise it wasn't. It felt like it was supposed to be.

[00:09:07] Gary London: Yeah, yeah. And you said you'd recently returned from another trip to Sweden?

[00:09:12] Katherine Halgren: Yes, yes. Uh, went to visit my cousin.

[00:09:16] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:17] Katherine Halgren: And met ... She had a night where she invited all the cousins to come, so it was fun to get to know Ber- uh, Bertha and Simon are obviously passed away by now.

[00:09:30] Of course. But their children and their grandchildren was very exciting to meet

[00:09:40] Gary London: So what did you do?

[00:09:43] Katherine Halgren: Mostly we went around. We went to the Oja Bin Church and, uh, sat through a service of that where we couldn't understand the English or the, the Swedish, but we could, we knew what was, basically what was happening.

[00:09:58] Mm-hmm. And it was very, um... I liked it as far as the, the mood of it was very loving and kind. Um, the stugas around the church. Mm-hmm. I had thought the stugas were a summer home, and then it was, my cousin said, "No, in maybe 1879, the King Vasa decided that they were gonna have, all have to attend church six, five times a year.

[00:10:31] So they built the houses and had a place for the ca- for the horses so that when they came, a long journey for them, they would have a place to stay and a place for their livestock to be comfortable, and, uh, attend church and probably stay for a couple days, I would think, just because the trip was so long."

[00:10:54] Gary London: Yeah. Maybe get in there five times, huh?

[00:10:56] Katherine Halgren: What's that? Right.

[00:10:58] Gary London: Maybe get in there five times.

[00:10:59] Katherine Halgren: Right, right. Yeah. And now, uh- They may not be used so much for the church gathering, 'cause it's not so hard to get there, but they're very much loved. And we went to my family's stuga about, oh, two or three times. Just, you know, you go there, you can have coffee and relax, and then go on to see other things.

[00:11:27] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:27] Katherine Halgren: The graveyard, we were able to find my ancestors there.

[00:11:32] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:33] Katherine Halgren: And hopefully we're gonna take some of John's ashes back and bury him with her, his mother and grandmother, and so that's exciting.

[00:11:46] Gary London: So it sounds like you felt a real affinity for Sweden when you returned.

[00:11:52] Katherine Halgren: Oh, it felt very, very natural and comfortable, and, uh, yeah, I could live there.

[00:12:02] No problem. And the people, the, the hospitality of the people. Um, people that didn't know who you were, but were ready to invite you into their house and-

[00:12:16] Gary London: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ...

[00:12:16] Katherine Halgren: serve you tea and coffee and goodies, and-

[00:12:19] Gary London: Yeah ...

[00:12:20] Katherine Halgren: uh, just the warmth of the community was wonderful.

[00:12:25] Gary London: About how large is it, would you say? Hmm.

[00:12:28] Katherine Halgren: I should know that, but I don't.

[00:12:30] I'd say, I'd say less than 1,000, but I don't know.

[00:12:34] Gary London: Less than 1,000,

[00:12:35] Katherine Halgren: huh? Yeah. But I'm not sure at all. But it's a small community.

[00:12:40] Gary London: Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about your father.

[00:12:45] Katherine Halgren: He, uh, of course, was in his 40s by the time I was born.

[00:12:51] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:51] Katherine Halgren: So, um, and he's worked very hard. Uh, he would be gone before I woke up in the morning, and he'd come home and have dinner at night.

[00:13:02] And the times that I remember most enjoying him was when we were on vacation.

[00:13:08] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:10] Katherine Halgren: And, uh, one year I remember him helping us to build little, like, hydroplane boats, just piece of wood with a little thing on it, and we'd pull it around and... But that was a very nice memory that I have of him, when he wasn't working, when he could spend some time with us.

[00:13:28] Clam digging was another thing that he loved to do. So we'd go down to the ocean every year and stay for, I remember one time we stayed for a month, and dug clams whenever we could, and, um, had other family members come and stay, and it was very enjoyable. Yeah. But the ocean was a very special place for him, going to the ocean and digging clams.

[00:13:57] Gary London: What kind of work did he do here?

[00:13:59] Katherine Halgren: Longshoreman.

[00:14:00] Gary London: Oh.

[00:14:01] Katherine Halgren: So it's hard work, and when he was, boy, I'm not sure how old he was, uh, I think I was about 15, so that'd make him about 55 maybe, and he was hurt on the job. A tow motor rode, ran over his foot, and, uh, almost lost his leg, and was in the hospital a while, and then was forced to retire.

[00:14:31] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:31] Katherine Halgren: And retirement for a man at that age was not at all, um, appreciated or desired or, um... So he took up the cook. My mother was working, and he was the cook. My sister had a baby, and he just became kind of the caregiver for my nephew, and it really gave him a purpose which brought him so much joy and, and meaning that I think that really helped him through the depression of being forced to d- to be disabled- Yeah

[00:15:18] or be labeled disabled and... But he had a lot of trouble with his foot and his leg, and, uh, yeah, never, never really fully recovered from that.

[00:15:31] Gary London: Uh, remind me, did he return to Sweden?

[00:15:35] Katherine Halgren: He did when I was two, and then he did a lot when I, uh, when I was grown. Um-

[00:15:43] Gary London: So he- I

[00:15:44] Katherine Halgren: mean, he made several trips back there

[00:15:46] Gary London: He made trips?

[00:15:46] Uh-huh.

[00:15:47] Katherine Halgren: Yeah. Maybe every other summer for a while there

[00:15:53] Gary London: Gene, what was his reaction to going to, to Sweden?

[00:15:59] Katherine Halgren: He loved it

[00:16:00] Gary London: Yeah

[00:16:00] Katherine Halgren: He loved it.

[00:16:02] Gary London: Oh

[00:16:02] Katherine Halgren: I'm sure he thought many times about should I have come back earlier

[00:16:07] Gary London: Was there ever any thought that he might stay in Sweden?

[00:16:12] Katherine Halgren: I don't think so. Yeah. He had too big a family here.

[00:16:14] Gary London: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:16] Katherine Halgren: When we were ... When I was about 10, so probably the '60s, um, we were the largest Viking family, so that was a big pride for him.

[00:16:27] Gary London: Wow.

[00:16:30] Katherine Halgren: So I think he had it established enough of his life here- Yeah ... that he, I don't think ... And then the snow and the darkness, he, I just remember that so well. Yeah. That he just didn't wanna be that cold anymore

[00:16:47] Gary London: How did he meet your mother?

[00:16:49] Katherine Halgren: At a dance. Um

[00:16:56] Yeah. They had social dances every, I don't know, Saturday night or something and, and that's where she met him and

[00:17:05] Gary London: Was he involved in, uh, any Swedish or Nordic Scandinavian organizations that you know of?

[00:17:13] Katherine Halgren: Yeah. The Swedish Club and the Vikings. Okay. Which I don't hear about now, so I don't know if they still exist.

[00:17:20] Uh, and he had a lodge that he belonged to, and every summer we went out to the Vasa Ho- Vasa Park for Swedish Day and for Midsummer. And when I was about 16, I think it was, 15 or 16, maybe 17, I was Swedish Day Prin- Princess. Swedish Day Queen runner-up.

[00:17:46] Gary London: Congratulations.

[00:17:47] Katherine Halgren: Out there at Vasa Park. Uh, but yeah, he was very committed to the Swedish community here in Seattle.

[00:17:55] Gary London: Uh, we should probably get your mother's name in the record, too.

[00:18:00] Katherine Halgren: My mother was Vern Evelyn Zimmer, and she was born in North Dakota. Her family, her mother, and her sister, and she came out to Portland, and, uh, apparently she'd come out to visit once and fell in love with it, and went back and got the girls and moved out west.

[00:18:21] Okay.

[00:18:26] Yeah, and then she met my father, and she was going to nursing school, and you couldn't be married in nursing school. So when they got married, they went up to Washington, I believe, Stevenson, to get married so that, uh, she wouldn't get kicked out of nursing school. She was about to graduate. But I remember them having to be secretly married for a while because of her, uh, nursing school.

[00:19:04] Gary London: And, uh, what were her ancestral origins?

[00:19:09] Katherine Halgren: I believe her father was born in Germany. Mm-hmm. He claimed he was born in North Dakota, but we couldn't find any record of it. I think it was just so much easier- Yeah ... to say, "I was born in North Dakota," than to say, "I was born in Germany." Yeah. But he and his mother and brother came over, I believe, when he was about six, and, um, but they were both gone before I was born, so I don't know much about them either.

[00:19:40] Gary London: So do you have siblings?

[00:19:42] Katherine Halgren: Yes, six. Or there's six of us. There's three brothers and two other sisters. Mm-hmm. So they were ... I'm the youngest of them, so- Okay ... five of them have gone on now.

[00:19:55] Gary London: Oh my.

[00:19:55] Katherine Halgren: And so I just have a sister left. Yeah. And it's surprising when you have such a huge family, so many brothers and sisters and all their children and all, and then to go down to such a small family.

[00:20:09] It's been very, you know, it goes to the extended family, but it's very different. Very different.

[00:20:16] Gary London: So what was it like growing up in a household with that many children?

[00:20:21] Katherine Halgren: Uh, my oldest brother was 18 when I was born.

[00:20:24] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:20:25] Katherine Halgren: So there's quite a split, and it's, my two older brothers are like another family kind of, because they were so much older.

[00:20:33] Um, but it was, uh, we raised chinchillas.

[00:20:39] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:39] Katherine Halgren: We had them in our basement. We had them in our garage. We had them in our neighbor's garage. We had chinchillas everywhere.

[00:20:50] Did some gardening, um

[00:20:59] A lot of teasing. I liked to tease my older brother. The more s- the favorite time was on New, uh, uh, Ap... He's so much bigger than I was when I was a, he still was grown up, but when you're little, and he's eight years older than me, he was, there was a real difference in size. And for April Fools' Day, I put salt in the sugar shaker.

[00:21:24] And I knew that the first thing he did was have cornflakes with lots of sugar on it. And I can remember being at the door and watching him do it, and watching him take his first bite, and I ran out that back door and ran to the neighbors. And I don't know how long it took before I came back, but I was, that was the one time that I really tricked my brother.

[00:21:52] Gary London: You attended school here in Seattle?

[00:21:54] Katherine Halgren: I did. Seattle, uh... Well, I went to high school at Garfield, and then at Newport out in Bellevue, and then at, uh, Queen Anne. And then went down, let's see, went to Seattle Community College. Okay. And then went down to Grays Harbor Community College down in Aberdeen. Uh-huh.

[00:22:14] And then went up to Bellingham, to Was- Western State, or Washington State, and then to Pacific Lutheran, and graduated from Pacific Lutheran. Uh-huh. Applied to graduate school, and, uh, the only graduate school I wanted to go to was Smith, because it was the best social work school in the country. And when I was turned down, it was like, "Okay, well, I'll just reapply for next year."

[00:22:45] Had an opportunity to visit Alaska. Um, a friend wanted to hang a net, which is just tying knots to a line with a web, and offered that if I'd come up with him, he would pay me to hang one of the lines, and that would cover half my airfare. So why not? So I went to Alaska for a two-week vacation, lived 10 miles south of the town, very small town, two-street, two-block main street, no traffic lights, uh, very small community.

[00:23:24] We lived 10 miles south of there on a island, the only cabin on the island. It had been a good place for razor clams when Cordova was the razor clam capital of the world.

[00:23:36] Eleanor Boba: Mm.

[00:23:36] Katherine Halgren: And then when the earthquake hit, it raised the ground so much that it killed just about all the razor clams. So it was an industry that died overnight, and most of the cabins were either deserted or burned or...

[00:23:53] But one cabin on that island was kept, uh, maintained and had a small hand-crank canner and, uh, or sealer. And so we could actually clam, can food there. Um, and did some salmon, you know, canned some salmon. Much too salty. Had to have it with eggs or something where you would normally add salt. But, uh, lived out there and- The information we would get would be from a transistor radio.

[00:24:32] So we were very isolated and, and no way to communicate with anyone. Uh, when the man that I was with then went out fishing The, his girlfriend and I were the only two on the island, and we had no way to communicate, no way to get off the island 'cause we didn't have a boat. So it was very interesting, interesting experience.

[00:24:57] Thankfully, we were both... didn't get injured, and everything was fine. But, uh, I really enjoyed the isolation and the quiet. And then, uh, had an opportunity to go fishing and, um, enjoyed that. It was a little scary at the end with a big storm blowing in. But, uh, absolutely loved Cordova. Loved the town, the people, the can-do attitude, the helping one each oth- with each other.

[00:25:31] Maybe a lot like Sweden, where they, you need to take care of each other. And, uh, the... Ended up selling my plane ticket home, taking a, uh, ride down the Alcan. And almost two months after I'd gone, I arrived back, and my boss thankfully was willing to hire me again. And I, uh, only worked long enough to pay off any bills I had because my trip had been so much longer than expected, and some startup money.

[00:26:07] And wrote to my friend up in Cordova, you know, "Are there jobs available?" And she wrote back that, "Yes, there's jobs available. You can sleep on my couch till you find a place of your own. Come on up." So that spring, next spring, I went up. And the feeling... I'd moved around so much in previous years, and when I got there, I actually felt like I had found home, uh, and wanted nothing more than to just go back up immediately.

[00:26:40] Forgot graduate school, forgot everything in my life, and Alaska, that's where I'm going. Went up and, um, worked a little, had a crew job. Found out that I get terribly seasick. The old timers would say, "Oh, just stick with it. You know, you'll get used to the motion." And, you know, well, I never did. So I had to quit that job.

[00:27:04] And, uh... But one of my friends had been, uh, killed out fishing, and his family wanted to lease the permit. The permitting was very new that year, uh, limited entry, where Alaska decided, "Okay, we're gonna have this many fishermen in this area, this many fishermen in this area." And, uh, so you had to have this special permit.

[00:27:31] And The family wanted to lease that out for the rest of the season so they could pay some of his fishing bills. And his best friend tried everyone he could think of that might wanna go fishing, but most people had their permit. Couldn't find, find anyone that was really interested because the season was, the big part of the money-making season was over, and nobody was really interested.

[00:28:01] Well, for me, I was gonna get half the fish. The man that gave me a skiff and rain gear and a net and everything to do it with would get half. He'd pay all the fishing expenses. I'd pay for the permit. And so it'd be like a vacation, uh, expense paid vacation is what the man made it sound like. And me not knowing much about anything, dealing with fishing or boats, said, "Well, sure.

[00:28:30] I can do that." And he promised I would not be seasick because it was in the Prince William Sound area, where it's very protected waters. Yeah. Not the strong tides, not the, um, no breakers, no... So I went with a roll of quarters and off to find some money, and my parents again were in Sweden that summer, so I called John and told him about it, and he, "Oh, yeah, I can, I c- I'll send you a check."

[00:28:59] So he sent a check, and I accepted the offer. Went out in a 21-foot skiff, a flat bottom rowboat type with a kicker on, or an outboard on it, for three weeks, having very little knowledge of what I was doing, but was gung ho. And, uh, went out and had an experience that was very humilita- humiliating, frustrating, uh-

[00:29:34] Tough, miserable, and I loved it.

[00:29:37] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:37] Katherine Halgren: I absolutely loved it. The, the feeling of a boat drifting and in good weather, and, uh, the fresh air, the salt air, the, um, the wildlife, I just fell in love with it. So at the end of the season, uh, decided that that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna figure out a way to earn enough money to buy a permit and a boat and go fishing.

[00:30:05] And stayed that winter and worked as much as I could, part-time, full-time, any jobs I, you know, I'd take 'em. I'd, you know. And, uh, ended up getting a permit, and the bank financed a boat. Uh, I remember the man, the banker, when I went in to get the loan, and he looked at the application. He said, "Well, but you must have some- something you could write down.

[00:30:31] How about a stereo?" You know, well, I didn't have any- I said, "Well, I do have a, a foreign sports car convertible in my parents' garge in Seattle." And his eyes got big, and, "Oh, what model?" "A Volkswagen Bug." So that wasn't ... But he did figure out a way to get me the loan. And, uh, fished a skiff for a few years. Met my husband.

[00:30:57] He worked for the cannery. And met him up there. And, um, ended up having ... Well, we got married. When I was pregnant, he thought I would not fish. But to me, it was like, something this trivial gonna stop me? Exactly. No, no, no. So he insisted I have a deckhand. So I had one of my girlfriends come with me, and it was a great season.

[00:31:26] We, um, we had a very good time and a very successful season. And, uh, then it was a matter of leaving to go fishing when I had a baby. And my husband is unbelievable in that sense, in that he said goodbye to his wife and stayed home with the child, and he was working full time. My sister volunteered to babysit while he was at work.

[00:32:01] And, uh- So that's what I did, went back up and went fishing, and we'd come back home. We'd never leave for more than a month. By the baby books, you know, they tell you certain, uh, recommendations, whatever, and that was one of them, was not more than a month. So I'd fly back and forth continuously over the season and bringing home salmon each year, for each trip.

[00:32:31] And, uh, and then couple years later was pregnant again, but by then Sewall had, my husband, had come up with my son Sam at a year and a half and at two and a half, so he saw me fishing and felt very comfortable with how careful I was and how prepared I was, and didn't insist I take someone with me. Right.

[00:32:57] And, uh, but that summer we had a, uh ... I had sucked up a jellyfish or something in my cooling system and overheated the engine, burnt the exhaust flaps, so when I shut down the engine, it sucked in saltwater, so I was dead in the water.

[00:33:23] Gary London: Oh.

[00:33:23] Katherine Halgren: Had to get a tow to town. And, uh-

[00:33:32] On that trip, there were two tenders. One that was taking the fish and now had to take them to town. The other boat was there taking fish, but selling fuel and groceries and things. They had to stay out and keep the fishermen going. So we just transferred their fish to us and gave them more fuel and, and to get them prepared to stay out and we would go on home.

[00:33:59] I'd be back the next day with my engine fixed, no problem. Well, the gasoline that they were transferring exploded. Something, something sparked and there was an explosion. And there were three of us in the cabin, two other women that had a boat in tow also, and we ended up, uh

[00:34:25] Running out of the cabin, we could hear, you know, we heard the explosion, we'd seen the flash. We heard noises out on the front deck, had no idea what was going on. Well, it was drums of gas that were empty, but had the fumes, so they were catapulting up to the front deck. And, uh, we went around the side, away from the flames, and saw someone come to the side in flames and jump overboard.

[00:34:56] Oh. And, uh, looked for safety equ- you know, survival equipment. Couldn't find any. Uh, saw a huge bumper on the side of the boat to protect it from other boats when they're tied alongside. Untied that and thinking, you know, "This at least will float. We can hang on to it. It'll be a, apparent to other boats."

[00:35:21] And, um, untied that and then went down ... Uh, there was another big explosion, and we went down into the water, and I had tethered a line around the railing so that we could stay with the boat because of the ... Who's gonna come? The rescue boats are gonna go to the fire. We want them to find us, so we need to stay with the boat.

[00:35:48] And we were being dragged along 'cause the boat was in gear, autopilot, going to town, and, uh, we were hanging alongside. Well, then there was another explosion that put water, put fuel into the water ahead of us, so that we looked ahead of where we were going, and here's the water on fire. So against, against all conventional wisdom, we released the line and, uh

[00:36:19] But right at that point, a crew member came over and, uh, yelled to us, and he was able to go hand over hand on the line that was towing the boat, went back to that boat, and ended up being able to come over and pull us out of the water. And the other people, although injured, were survived. But, um, that is the story that made me write this book.

[00:36:52] Um- Let's see, uh- It's an

[00:36:56] Gary London: amazing story.

[00:36:56] Katherine Halgren: Oh, it was, it was, uh ... Yeah, it was a-

[00:37:00] Eleanor Boba: Why don't you hold the book up for the camera?

[00:37:04] Katherine Halgren: The, um, Cheating Death. And it's, uh-

[00:37:10] Gary London: When did, when was that published?

[00:37:13] Katherine Halgren: October 10th of this year.

[00:37:15] Gary London: Oh.

[00:37:15] Katherine Halgren: So just a few, what, nine days ago?

[00:37:19] Gary London: Wow.

[00:37:20] Katherine Halgren: It's a project that I've been working on for 25 years.

[00:37:23] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:37:24] Katherine Halgren: But I did not know how to write. And, um, so it took a while for me to figure out how to write, and had some editors that were great, and went to classes where the students then, you'd read part of it, and they would give the, their feedback,

[00:37:42] Gary London: and- Yeah. So- Well, congratulations-

[00:37:42] Katherine Halgren: Yeah, yeah ... on the publication of the book.

[00:37:44] I'm real glad that it's done.

[00:37:47] Gary London: Yeah. According to the information we had- You harvested copper river salmon for more than 30 years on the Luna Sea out of Cordova.

[00:38:01] Katherine Halgren: Correct.

[00:38:02] Gary London: Is that correct?

[00:38:02] Katherine Halgren: Correct. Yeah. Not the whole time on the Luna Sea. The Luna Sea was a... First I fished a 21-foot skiff.

[00:38:09] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:10] Katherine Halgren: Then I moved up to a 24-foot skiff.

[00:38:12] Mm-hmm. And at the time, the boats building was going from fiber, from wood to fiberglass. And the boats, instead of having a stern picker where you take the gear in from the stern, they were switching to the bow, where you take the gear up boat from the bow, which is much more, um, in sync with the currents and the wind and, I mean, it's much smarter.

[00:38:38] Mm-hmm. And so, uh, let's see. I'd been fishing about five years and, um, ended up getting a, a fiberglass bow picker that was, uh, at the time, you know, marvelous, modern boat. But within a few years was old and small and... But, uh, yeah, the f- the Luna Sea, uh, the water and the moon were insane. Yeah. And it was just kind of...

[00:39:14] People kind of, "Oh, that's just Kathy. You know?" "She's doing her thing." Uh, the things I learned, though, uh, you know, how to do copper piping, how to do, how to remove my engine, how to train- change the transmission, how to... The one time I, my transmission went out and I got towed into town and they pulled the boat, and then my job was to take out the engine so that I could transfer the trans- change the transmissions.

[00:39:49] And I had a manual that I looked at, and it looked like it was all in foreign language. I mean, I just, you know, "What are they talking about?" And decided, "Okay, I can just look at this and figure out what needs to be disconnected to get this engine out." Ended up getting it out, exchanging the transmissions, putting it back in, getting all, everything ready and getting put back in the water.

[00:40:16] I started the engine and there was a horrible metal noise. Oh. So I shut it back down and thought, "Oh, my gosh, what have I done?" It was internal. It was metal. I knew it was bad, bad, bad. Found the port engineer at the cannery who looked at it and said, "Oh, you bent the, the, uh-" dust cover. There's a dust cover over the flywheel.

[00:40:42] And he said, "But you don't need to worry about dust." And he stuck a little piece of wood in there to keep it from hitting, and I was back in business. But it, the noise that it made just, I was sure I'd destroyed something. But, um, yeah, became, went to, uh, school up in Anchorage for two winters learning auto diesel mechanics.

[00:41:08] And after those classes, I realized when I had first started fishing and asking, we had little CB radios, so I could get stuck and I'd ask a question. You know, "Well, this happened. What do, you know, what do I do now?" And people would answer my questions and help me along, and they were all very helpful. And, but after going to school, I realized that the long pause between my question and their answer wasn't because it was such a tough question.

[00:41:41] It was because they were rolling in their bunks laughing so hard they couldn't talk. And decided that they had accepted me into the fleet 'cause I was such great radio entertainment.

[00:41:57] Gary London: So how unusual was it for a woman to be out fishing?

[00:42:01] Katherine Halgren: At that time it was very different, but now it's becoming more acceptable.

[00:42:07] Uh-huh. Uh, when I started, I was one of about half a dozen women, and the other women all had a husband or a father that was in the fishery.

[00:42:16] Gary London: Was fishing, too.

[00:42:17] Katherine Halgren: So it was kind of, they had, were grown up with it. Yeah. Um-

[00:42:23] Gary London: You were a pioneer.

[00:42:24] Katherine Halgren: Yeah, yeah. But now other people, other women are coming into the fleet. Uh, about, about 10 years after I joined, there were probably three more women that joined the fleet.

[00:42:41] Gary London: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:42:42] Katherine Halgren: And I'm sure now there's even more.

[00:42:44] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:42:45] Katherine Halgren: I don't... We're still a minority, but-

[00:42:47] Gary London: Yeah ...

[00:42:48] Katherine Halgren: but it's more accepted.

[00:42:50] Gary London: Did, did, did you experience what you would call sexism?

[00:42:56] Katherine Halgren: Maybe a little, but not, uh ... I commented in the book that I didn't experience the, what most women break into a male-dominated industry.

[00:43:08] Eleanor Boba: Hmm.

[00:43:09] Katherine Halgren: That, 'cause there was, I didn't have a boss-

[00:43:12] Eleanor Boba: Uh-huh ...

[00:43:12] Katherine Halgren: to intimidate me. Uh-huh. And I, the prices for fish were the prices for fish, so there wasn't a discrepancy in wages. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and none of them ever sexually harassed me in the years, 550 of them, you know, that they accepted that, okay. I did realize the fishermen, the men that knew me before I started fishing related differently than the men who met me after I started fishing.

[00:43:43] How

[00:43:43] Gary London: so?

[00:43:47] Katherine Halgren: I think it was, I think it was that the men who knew me before knew me as Kathy, and the fishermen that knew me afterwards saw me as competition.

[00:43:59] Gary London: Oh.

[00:43:59] Katherine Halgren: You know, I'm a competitor. Yeah, yeah. So you're, you know. But the men who knew me before I started fishing were very brotherly, I'd say.

[00:44:09] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:44:10] Katherine Halgren: Yeah

[00:44:13] Gary London: What a fascinating story.

[00:44:15] Katherine Halgren: Yeah.

[00:44:15] Gary London: Do you have other, uh, stories you want to share of that period?

[00:44:20] Katherine Halgren: Well, one of the advantages of leaving my children in the summer to go fishing was that I could spend the winters basically with them. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I did a lot of school projects. Uh, fun finding urban nature. A program by the Audubon Society.

[00:44:39] Gary London: Mm.

[00:44:39] Katherine Halgren: And teaching young children, grade school children, about finding urban nature. Finding, you know, and that was, that was very

[00:44:50] Eleanor Boba: good. I did fun also.

[00:44:51] Katherine Halgren: You've done it? Yeah. It's a good class, isn't it? Several

[00:44:54] Eleanor Boba: years.

[00:44:55] Katherine Halgren: And, uh, the other one that really stands out to me is going over to the University of Washington and picking up salmon eggs and milt.

[00:45:05] Going back to the school, and they had a nice, good size aquarium. Oh. That then the teacher showed them the eggs and the milt, putting them together and putting them into the aquarium, and then they watched them grow. And then in the spring, we went and released them into the lake. Wow. And that was very exciting to me.

[00:45:27] To, you know, the kids, they were able to incorporate math and probably other studies into the watching the fish grow. What

[00:45:36] Eleanor Boba: school were they in?

[00:45:37] Katherine Halgren: Olympic View. Uh-

[00:45:42] Gary London: Oh ...

[00:45:42] Katherine Halgren: very active parents there at the time I was there.

[00:45:47] Gary London: How many children did you have?

[00:45:48] Katherine Halgren: Just two boys.

[00:45:49] Gary London: You had two boys, huh?

[00:45:50] Katherine Halgren: Yeah.

[00:45:51] Gary London: And, uh, we ne- never did get your husband's name in the record, I think.

[00:45:55] Katherine Halgren: His name is Sewell Clake.

[00:45:58] Gary London: Okay.

[00:45:59] Katherine Halgren: And the boys are Sam and, Samuel and Steven. Tell us about- And they-

[00:46:04] Gary London: Tell us about them.

[00:46:06] Katherine Halgren: Well, they, uh, had a wonderful life, half in Seattle, which all the Cordovans wish they had, and half in Cordova, which all the Seattle folks wish they had. They really had a wonderful childhood coming up there and, and, uh, let's see, started fishing with me when they were about five, and, uh, very much enjoyed being out on the water.

[00:46:39] Um, enjoy... My youngest one really got into filleting salmon. He just... That was very interesting to him and-

[00:46:47] Gary London: Mm ...

[00:46:47] Katherine Halgren: and, uh, so when we had a, a flight coming to pick us up, the two of us, and we thought, "Well, we'll just take the last of our catch." You know, we delivered our fish and cleaned our boat. "We'll just take the last of our fish and take it in with us to town."

[00:47:05] Well, we caught a lot more fish than we realized, but Steven was there, and he just filleted them out, and we had, you know, we had space in the box for them. So, uh, they also had the, uh, privilege of going around. They had-- We had a Zodiac with a little kicker on it, so that they could go and explore, and they were sure they had been places that no other human had been, you know.

[00:47:31] If you go in somewhere at high water and you can't get out until high water, you know, so it was like, "This is a place that's really special, and I bet nobody else has ever been here," you know. Um, they got to do some sport fishing and, uh- They had four wheelers so when the fishing, when the oil spill happened, that was probably the most traumatic experience in my life that I ever had.

[00:48:00] That was, it, uh, yeah, it was devastating to me and The, to think of your fishery, you know, your, here your career is gone because there's oil. But then trying to... We went up and tried to... You know, the oil companies aren't picking up the oil. Why not? We went out with a fuel transfer pump and vacuumed up the oil and put it into, um, five-gallon bucket or 55-gallon buckets, are they?

[00:48:42] No, five-gallon buckets, and filled up 100 of these five-gallon buckets lickety-split, no problem. It was very easy to pick up the oil. And we thought, "Well, once we show these people how easy it is to pick it up, they'll pick it up." They didn't. And we realized that, oh, any oil they pick up is not crude, it's hazardous waste, so they don't want it.

[00:49:17] And, uh, but that, that whole thing just really was a hard, hard couple of years of my life. And, uh, the fishing was cut. There were areas we couldn't fish because of the oil, and there were times when we got shut down because of the oil. So we had more time in town, and ended up going out. We have 26 mile... We have a 50-mile, had, we don't anymore, had a road that went 50 miles out to glaciers that were just spectacular along the Copper River.

[00:49:55] Wow. And, uh, but at 26 mile, halfway out there, they, we could go and there were sand dunes and, and still even in the summer some snow on the side and, and, uh, but we'd go out there and they, one of them had a four-wheeler and one of them had a three-wheeler, so they could run around on that. And, oh, then they'd get stuck in the mud and, and, uh, thinking it was quicksand and not being able to get out.

[00:50:25] And, and having to work together, the two boys, 'cause they were away from, from where I was and the campfire, and, uh, figured out that they had to get wood, scraps of wood from the beach, and shove it under the wheels to be able to get out of the mud. So they had some real, learned some real survival skills-

[00:50:47] Gary London: Yeah.

[00:50:47] Katherine Halgren: Yeah ... up there fishing. Yeah.

[00:50:53] When things break, you don't always have the option of going to the hardware store. And even if you do have the option, the hardware store may not have the part. Sure. So you kind of make do, jerry rig and haywire and all that kind of thing that- A lot

[00:51:10] Gary London: of improvising.

[00:51:11] Katherine Halgren: Yes, yes. Improvise a lot. Yeah. And, uh, but they learn those skills as well.

[00:51:18] And, um-

[00:51:20] Gary London: So what do the boys do now?

[00:51:22] Katherine Halgren: One is an event manager for Amazon. Mm-hmm. Uh, has events, even worldwide events, that he has to coordinate time-wise, you know. Mm-hmm. Uh, and the other one is a gunsmith up in Alaska.

[00:51:38] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:39] Katherine Halgren: Where guns aren't ... Guns are necessary. They're a necessary tool.

[00:51:45] Eleanor Boba: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:46] Katherine Halgren: And he is very much into precision because he's a hunter.

[00:51:51] Eleanor Boba: Mm. Mm.

[00:51:52] Katherine Halgren: And we've had the opportunity to have, uh, caribou meat, which is sensational, and moose meat, which is my favorite. I mean, I ... Oh, moose meat and caribou meat, they're so good compared to beef. Oh, they're just mouthwatering. And, uh, so I'm, yeah, I'm quite happy with what he's doing just because of the benefits I get to reap.

[00:52:22] Gary London: And he's in, uh, he's in Alaska.

[00:52:24] Katherine Halgren: He's in Alaska, yeah.

[00:52:25] Gary London: Are your sons married? Do you have grandchildren?

[00:52:27] Katherine Halgren: Both of them are married. Uh, and I have five grandchildren. Three up in Alaska and two in Edmonds. Uh, two boys and a girl in Wasilla, and one boy, one girl down here. But the girls were both born at the beginning of the year, and they're the first girls, first females, in my husband's family for a couple generations.

[00:52:54] So that was real exciting to-

[00:52:57] Gary London: Yeah. Yeah ...

[00:52:58] Katherine Halgren: have some girls in the family.

[00:53:00] Gary London: Now, if I understand you correctly, your husband never did fish?

[00:53:05] Katherine Halgren: Only with me. And that was just observation.

[00:53:09] Gary London: Yeah, yeah. So he was not himself a fisherman.

[00:53:12] Katherine Halgren: No, no. He worked in the office. Oh. Uh, he was more of an accountant.

[00:53:18] Gary London: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:18] Katherine Halgren: And, uh, yeah, had no desire to, to be a fisherman.

[00:53:25] Okay. And when we were married, he decided, well, the family needs roots, and my wife isn't gonna put down any roots 'cause she's too busy going up to Alaska. So he ended up quitting the fishing business and working in Seattle full time.

[00:53:47] Gary London: Let's, uh, try to bring it back around to, to Sweden. Uh, your children interested in Sweden, your son?

[00:53:59] Katherine Halgren: I think somewhat, but they don't have the... When I was growing up, we had Uncle Carl and Aunt Florence, who were not related, but they were from Sweden, and they knew e- you know, they had some kind of connection in the community.

[00:54:16] And, uh, so they were my aunt and uncle here. E- spite the fact that I had, my mother had a sister here in Seattle, and yeah, she was my aunt, but not nearly as close as Aunt Florence from- Yeah ... you know, the Swedish connection. And then the man who sponsored my father was a cousin of my grandmother, and he was He was kind of the patriarch of the family.

[00:54:52] Um, he was... We actually saw his home in Sweden. It was a very, very large, nice home that they had actually picked to choose to move to this, um, cultural center. And, um, but when his... He was, I think, three, his parents died and his sister died, and he then came to live with my grandmother when he was very young, so probably her parents.

[00:55:30] I mean, I'm not sure exactly, trying to follow the different family lines. But, but, uh, I think we had more of a connection because of those people. Sure. And although they both belong to Frihet Vasa Lodge, they don't... Steven was pretty, pretty good at participating when he was living down here. But, um, yeah, they're not as connected

[00:56:04] Gary London: Do you plan to continue visiting in Sweden or any plans for the future as far as visiting there?

[00:56:11] Katherine Halgren: Yes. Yes, I'd like to go back next year. And, um

[00:56:22] I'd like to get the kids to know the cousins over there. Yeah. I'd like to get some kind of connection so that when I pass, their connection to Sweden isn't gone. Yeah. So I'd like to get the kids to know each other somehow.

[00:56:37] Gary London: Do you have a, a plan for that?

[00:56:42] Katherine Halgren: No, no. I thought about, uh, taking them over there, but it's not in their life to be able to q- you know, not work and-

[00:56:53] Gary London: Sure,

[00:56:53] Katherine Halgren: sure

[00:56:53] and, uh, yeah, they don't have the freedom that I do. Um

[00:57:01] But I'll keep the connection and somehow connect it to them. There's, there's some way to do it.

[00:57:09] Gary London: So what do you like most about visiting Sweden?

[00:57:15] Katherine Halgren: The people. By far, the people. Um, and their pride in their history. Uh, the amount of buildings that we saw that were very, very, very old, but still maintained and still in good condition, um- The hospitality of the people, the helping, you know, I mean, it was, to me, it reminded me a lot of the Alaskan spirit, where you stick together and make it through.

[00:57:48] Yeah

[00:57:51] Gary London: Uh, are there things that you bring back from Sweden?

[00:58:00] Katherine Halgren: Physical things, we brought a puzzle of the Oyabean Church and some, and some, uh, marzipan. But, uh, no, I didn't bring back any treasures or, um... A lot of pictures. A lot of pictures of my ancestors from their pictures. Um- Yeah, I'd like to know more of the history and the geology and be able to really follow it firmly, uh

[00:58:39] Gary London: Do you consider yourself Swedish?

[00:58:42] Katherine Halgren: Yes. Yes, very definitely

[00:58:47] Gary London: What does that mean to you? What does being Swedish mean?

[00:58:53] Katherine Halgren: Ah

[00:58:57] I think of Swedes as having a certain amount of integrity and pride and, uh

[00:59:10] People that you can look up to and respect. Um, a lot of pride in being a Swede. Yeah. Yeah. Stubborn.

[00:59:21] Gary London: Okay.

[00:59:21] Katherine Halgren: Which to me was very valuable because I persisted.

[00:59:26] Gary London: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:27] Katherine Halgren: And, uh, wasn't gonna make, listen to something that I couldn't do. You can't do that. Oh, yes, I can. Watch me. Okay. And in fact, that's how I became the Swedish Day Queen runner-up was my father told me I couldn't do it.

[00:59:43] And it was like, "Watch." So I guess, I think part of that is my Swede is, you can't do something, you bet I can.

[00:59:55] Gary London: Well, thank you so very much. Uh, do others have any more questions you'd like to put to Kathy?

[01:00:04] Eleanor Boba: Y- um, you kept mentioning a John, and I lost the thread of who John is.

[01:00:09] Katherine Halgren: Okay. John is my youngest brother.

[01:00:12] Eleanor Boba: Okay ...

[01:00:13] Katherine Halgren: eight years older than me, and closest brother because the other two were so much older and had- Okay

[01:00:18] families by the time I was-

[01:00:20] Eleanor Boba: Thank you ...

[01:00:21] Katherine Halgren: growing up. But yeah, John is a, was a big Swedish Club person and a big Nordic Heritage Museum person. Right. Matter of fact, our suitcase, my father's suitcase, I haven't seen it here, but in the old building- Okay ... they had a display of early migrants.

[01:00:44] Eleanor Boba: Yeah.

[01:00:44] Katherine Halgren: And my father's suitcase was there.

[01:00:47] Eleanor Boba: Mm.

[01:00:48] Katherine Halgren: And I wish I could have put a note in there, "If you ever take this out of your exhib- exhibit and want to dispose of it, please call me." Yeah. Because we were unaware that John was taking all these treasures and donating them to the Swedish Club and the Heritage Museum. Oh. Yeah. But, and I heard that that was made by a shoe, a shoe s- shoemaker in Little Pete, the suitcase was.

[01:01:22] Gary London: I'm sure it's still in the collection.

[01:01:24] Katherine Halgren: Yeah.

[01:01:24] Gary London: Yeah.

[01:01:26] Katherine Halgren: But I thought that was so interesting, the shoemaker would make a suitcase for him.

[01:01:31] Gary London: A

[01:01:32] Katherine Halgren: suitcase, yeah. But it was very treasured, the suitcase that brought him to America

[01:01:41] Gary London: So, uh, do you feel like your father would be pleased with where you are now in your life?

[01:01:47] Katherine Halgren: Yeah. Yeah. He didn't like... He loved the salmon I would send every year, but he didn't like the idea of me fishing in Alaska. Yeah. He had tried once, uh, I believe it was a couple years before I was born. He'd gone up to Bristol Bay and fished one summer, and the boat that he was on had drifted away from the area, and luckily, I think it was Masonic.

[01:02:20] He claimed it was a Masonic signal that he'd given the other ship or something, and they came and picked him up, and he never, never, never wanted to experience that again. So he did never went back to Alaska. And when he heard I was fishing in Alaska and thought about the equipment he had and what he had done and the vulnerability and the risk- Yeah

[01:02:49] he just did not like it one bit. But when I got my new boat, the Bow Picker, he came down and saw that, and it had flush decks so that all, any water that came in washed off the sides. I had a hydraulic reel that pulled in the net lickety-split with no effort. I had a big 454 Chevy engine that could power, you know, the b- He just, he looked at it with amazement.

[01:03:21] Gary London: He was impressed.

[01:03:23] Katherine Halgren: Yes. And I think after that he felt better eating my salmon because he knew I was safe up there doing it with that boat. And I remember one year, they, uh, called us in for a strike because of the pink price. Yeah. And the gillnetters were catching sockeye in record amounts. Mm-hmm. And I went to town and I said, "I can't...

[01:03:48] I can support you by not selling any pink salmon, but I won't stop fishing because I'm loading my boat with reds." Yeah. And went back out, but made sure that I had a bucket of, an empty bucket with a good sealing lid and some salt, and when we caught a pink salmon, we just filleted it and salted it in the bucket.

[01:04:12] Well, then I could bring those salted pinks home. Dad would wash off, wash out the salt, put a little beet juice in there for color, and slice it thin and, oh, he loved it. So it was, it was, uh, yeah, it was a treat to be able to bring him something like that, and to send him salmon all the time. Uh, the first year we sent salmon up.

[01:04:39] The second year I got a letter from my brother with a check in it that said, "We really enjoyed the salmon, and if you wanna send more, I'll pay for the shipping." And that just kinda started a tradition where every summer-

[01:04:52] Gary London: Yeah ...

[01:04:52] Katherine Halgren: there were kings and, and sockeyes sent down

[01:04:55] Gary London: and

[01:04:59] Brendan, did you have any questions?

[01:05:01] Brandon Benson: I don't.

[01:05:02] Gary London: Okay. Well, thank you so much, Kathy. This has been a fascinating interview. Great. Again- Yeah ... appreciate your time.

[01:05:11] Katherine Halgren: Yeah, yeah. You're more than welcome.

[01:05:16] I hope you can get something out of this

[01:05:17] ​