[00:00:05] Gordon Strand: Okay, today is April the 29th, 2026. We are at the National Nordic Museum. We're going to be interviewing David Sheldon and Marilyn Sheldon. My name is Gordon Strand and I'm joined here by

[00:00:23] Marianne Forssblad: Marianne Forssblad.

[00:00:26] Gordon Strand: Really welcome and thank you for doing this. This is, uh. Part of our oral history project, and we're focused a lot right now on the fishing industry. And what, what's the history of that in the northwest? So, Marianne, you wanna start?

[00:00:41] Marianne Forssblad: Well, uh, we would like to know when did you decide to become so involved in the fishing industry and when did you come to Seattle?

[00:00:53] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, I was born in Reading Pennsylvania in, uh. 1937 and Reading was a, a city of 110,000 Pennsylvania Dutch. We lived near the Amish, which you saw driving around, you know, in your horse and buggy, which they still do today. And I graduated from the Reading Hospital School of Nursing in 1958. And in 1959, I decided that I wanted to extend my horizons. And the, uh, eye doctor that I went to, he suggested that I write letters to different people in Alaska. And so that's what I did.

[00:01:41] Marilyn Sheldon: And in 1959, I flew to Petersburg, Alaska, and we had to stay overnight in Seattle. And then it was a sea plane that went to Petersburg and we landed in the water and I thought we were crashing, but then it went up on the ground from there. And when I got to Petersburg, I thought, oh, it was a different world. It was a town of 2000 people, mostly fishermen and loggers. And the forestry was big there too, 'cause logging camps were a big thing then. There were no paved streets and there were boardwalk. There was one grocery store and you know, it was, I think there was one restaurant, but uh, the hospital was 22 beds, and I loved it. I just loved the nurse. I loved that kind of nursing care. You got to know everybody. It was wonderful. So I worked there a year and then I went to, uh, Sitka, Alaska, and that was a about 25 bed hospital, but we had a orthopedic doctor there that invented the Stryker frame. And we had people from all over the country. It was for back surgery and apparently not many people had that anymore, but, but one story I have to tell about Sitka, I mean, that was about 10,000 people and that that had a lot of history to it because during World War II, they were really concerned about being invaded and they had a complete under- underground hospital there. It was never used, but it was complete with operating rooms and everything. And you know, now, today, I'm sure that's all closed over, but I stayed with a couple of widows and they still had the blackout curtains on the windows and they were- war was still fresh in their minds.

[00:03:59] Marilyn Sheldon: One night in that hospital I was to get off at 11 and about 10 they called and said they had all these emergencies coming in. All we all had to gather there and we had a woman who was delivering her baby. We had a logger who a tree had fallen on him and he was full of blood in the ab, you know, it was terrible. And he eventually died. And then we had, uh, oh, let's see. Oh, we had a policeman that had served a notice to a couple in a trailer and they shot him in the heart and they brought him in and they opened up his heart to try it, but he was gone. And then they had the basketball team from Petersburg was there, 'cause basketball was a big thing in high school. And they'd come over on the boats, you know, 'cause everything had to go by sea. But, uh, they, the kid, it was snowing that night and they had this road chained off. And of course the kids thought that was great fun to take off the chain, drive up the road. They had an accident and the child in the driver's seat went through the windshield and he was killed instantly. Oh. And we had all those in that little hospital in that one night. I'll never forget that.

[00:05:35] Gordon Strand: How many nurses were there besides...

[00:05:37] Marilyn Sheldon: there was, uh, probably only four nurses. There was one anesthesiologist and about three doctors. And, but you know, they had to get other people in. It was, it was just, you know, we only had, uh, like one ER and one operating room and it was sort of like you had to take turns.

[00:06:00] Marilyn Sheldon: So anyway, uh, then I left Sitka and I was back in Petersburg visiting and that's when I met Gene, uh, who I eventually married. He was- he was on the boat up there with his dad and they, at that time, they were buying fish from the gill net boats. And, um, I was introduced to him and we hit it off. And so anyway, um, he, so he went down. When that season was over for him, he went down to, uh, Seattle on the boat with his dad and I flew down and stayed with his sister and then eventually found an apartment and started to work at the community hospital in the Ballard Community Hospital, I think it was called then.

[00:06:55] Gordon Strand: Oh, before it was Swedish, you..

[00:06:57] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, before it was Swedish and, uh, Irma. Irma Gertin.

[00:07:02] Gordon Strand: Oh yeah.

[00:07:03] Marilyn Sheldon: Was the one that interviewed me. I remember that She was in charge, in charge of the hospital. Then the nursing.

[00:07:10] Marianne Forssblad: What year was this?

[00:07:12] Marilyn Sheldon: Uh, that would've been 19. Let's see, when I get 61, 62. 62, I start, yeah. And I think she left soon after that. But, but anyway, then, uh, Gene and I, we decided to elope. So we drove to Reno and got married November 30th of that year. And then, so then we lived in the Lock Haven Apartments.

[00:07:42] Gordon Strand: Oh yeah.

[00:07:42] Marilyn Sheldon: And um, for, you know, for the first couple years I think he just, he went up fishing with his daddy, went halibut fishing, dragging. He did. And I worked at the hospital and then I got pregnant. With, uh, Brian, but in the meantime, Gene and his dad had bought a boat, I think it was in Port Angeles, called the Emily Jane, and it was, I think a 65, is that right foot wooden boat. And I think they paid $10,000 for it. Oh, each of them 5,000. And so anyway, Gene ran that and his dad had another boat called the Eagle that he bought fish with.

[00:08:32] Marilyn Sheldon: So, uh, the first year. Brian was only, he was born in March and Gene said, no, it's, you can't go this year. You know? So anyway, it, um, yeah, after that I was nursing and then I started to go on the boat. The next year took, took Brian, he had a little life jacket that he wore and. You know, we just, it was no radar. I had never been in a boat. I got seasick. I used to say, I wanna go home to my mother and it, you know, 'cause we were in some really bad weather and I remember, uh, then we used to. We used to fish up there till the middle of October. 'cause we'd go up to Lynn Canal, which was in Hayes and Skagway area up further, and they, that was the last fishery, donut fishery of the, of the season.

[00:09:37] Marilyn Sheldon: And I remember they had so much fish at night. It was just unbelievable. Their nets were full and they'd need to unload, and that was our job. And we had no radar at that time. And I remember in the middle of the night running around. Gene was on the flying bridge, which was the top of the boat, and I was down in the cabin and I had a broom and I would pound on it if there was a boat there and he had to go the other way. It was a nightmare. But we got through and we, we got a lot of, we got so much fish, we had deck loads and David, I think has pictures of that. There was. Yeah, it, one time it snowed. We had 10 inches of snow during the night and we still had to buy fish the next day. And it, it was hard, but, you know,

[00:10:36] Gordon Strand: And where does the fish go after? I mean,

[00:10:38] Marilyn Sheldon: Well then, oh, then they go to Icicle down. Okay. So yeah, that's where I, I wanted to get that in. Okay. Our first year we worked for Kale or Doll when, uh, that Gene and I went up. And, you know, we had no laundry facilities on the boat and uh, they used to do the laundry for us.

[00:11:01] David Sheldon: You might wanna explain what a deck load is. Do you want, do you know what a deck load is? It, it's a, it's a term that when the fish fills up in the tank, the boat's full, and then from that point they literally go on deck, 'cause that's the only place left to put them.

[00:11:14] Gordon Strand: Deck load. Oh, I thought- A deck load ... I thought you said death for a minute.

[00:11:17] David Sheldon: A death. Yeah. You might wanna explain what a deck load is. So yeah. Yeah. 'Cause you, you said deck loads earlier in your comment about up north, so yeah.

[00:11:24] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Well, I don't think they're even allowed to do that today, are they?

[00:11:29] David Sheldon: No.

[00:11:29] Marilyn Sheldon: No. But in those days it was, it was different. And, uh, another thing with the gill net fish in, in the days of the kids, it was fish poughs that they used, and that was a stick with a hook on the end of it. I think it's spelled P-O-U-G-H, fish pough.

[00:11:52] Marilyn Sheldon: But a- a- anyway, uh, I forget now where I was. Oh, so we're up in Lynn Canal. Another time, the weather, it was blowing a lot, and I remember we were buying fish at night and somebody fell in the water. And one of the fishermen fell in that cold water, and everybody had to go to rescue. So Gene had to get off the boat, and it was just he and I on the boat. And we were anchored up close to shore, and it was real windy. And I was so afraid because I didn't know what to do if the boat went up on the shore. But, um, I kept looking at the fathometer and I said, "Three." And then Gene said, "Oh, don't listen to her. She's always in a panic." And then pretty soon it hit the ground. And then he came back and we got out of that. But there was a lot, there were times like that where I thought, "What am I doing here?" But in the... And, you know, I remember steering. Um, I didn't know how to steer, but I, he taught me. I learned how to steer. And I remember coming in from the fishing grounds and every, every week, and I'd meet the, the tow boat, and he and I would talk in the phone. And the phones, now, we had to have a license, uh, to talk on the ship-to-shore phone. That's the only communication we had.

[00:13:27] Gordon Strand: Hm.

[00:13:28] Marilyn Sheldon: People, you couldn't, you know, if you called your family you were on that ship-to-shore and everybody could hear you. And, uh, I remember we used, there were lighthouses all around in Petersburg and, and we used to listen in. That was our entertainment, listening to those young guys call their wives with all their- ... complaints. Their toilet was clogged, you know, and all.

[00:13:55] Marilyn Sheldon: But, um, anyway, I forgot to say that the first year we- Fished for Kale or Doll. And then we fished for Icicle Seafoods, and that was owned by Bob Thorson was one of the owners. And we became really close friends. His children were the same age as the boys. And in fact, when they started school, they would stay with Pam and Bob while we went fishing till the middle-

[00:14:27] Gordon Strand: Oh, okay ...

[00:14:27] Marilyn Sheldon: Of October. But then as they grew, you know, got, they had to come down when they got into junior high and got into the high- higher-

[00:14:35] Marianne Forssblad: Did you meet, did you meet any more fishing families and became friendly with a lot of fishing families around Ballard and Petersburg and the north?

[00:14:46] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, oh, with Petersburg, yeah. But you know, I w- I was the only woman on the boat. And, and, uh, and it, that, that was really I think what drew people to our boat because then, you know, we had Brian, and we were a family. And then David was born in 1969, and I, I stayed in. He was born July 20th, and I was on the boat till they left that Sunday, and then I was induced. And he was born, and when they got back, then I stayed with a friend with, with him. But when they called Ge- uh, Gene on the ship-to-shore radio, of course everybody was listening in. But they forgot to tell Gene whether it was a boy or a girl 'cause they were so excited. But so he didn't know till we got back to town. Oh. But, um, anyway, then David went, we went right back to the boat. And I had bought all these diapers, you know, to bring up, and of course he was allergic to the cloth diapers. So, yeah, he was so sore. So, no, I had brought the disposables, so then I had to buy the cloth.

[00:16:14] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[00:16:15] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, we had no washing machine on the boat, so we used to put them in a bag and drag it behind the boat, at the stern of the boat, and then I guess I rinsed them out or something. We had a, uh, the Emily Jane had a wood stove. We had no shower. I think we held 300 gallons of water. We had a double sink. And I remember putting both, one boy in one side and one in the other to give them a bath. We, we used, would have to take our showers at the, uh, oil dock. They had free showers, but that was gross. But, uh, they did let me use, there was a shower in the office the year I was pregnant. So Bob said... Bob was very good 'cause he knew what Pam had gone through for the baby. So he, he was always looking out for us. He was. Yeah. He was, he was very good.

[00:17:15] Marianne Forssblad: How long did you stay with going out on the boat and being part of the fishing as the only woman?

[00:17:24] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, you mean for a season?

[00:17:26] Marianne Forssblad: No, for the, for the total-

[00:17:27] Gordon Strand: For how many years did-

[00:17:28] Marianne Forssblad: How many years

[00:17:29] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, 30-

[00:17:29] Marianne Forssblad: Total years

[00:17:29] Marilyn Sheldon: 34.

[00:17:31] Marianne Forssblad: 34 years.

[00:17:31] Marilyn Sheldon: 34 years. And then Icicle then stopped buying gillnet fish, and so they had a big party, uh, you know, for me. And then, then Gene got, uh... No, then the two boys got their own boats. And, uh, they both worked for Ketchikan. Isn't that how that was? Mm-hmm.

[00:17:55] David Sheldon: Well, I took, I took over the Gene S. when you retired.

[00:17:59] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah.

[00:17:59] David Sheldon: And Brian bought the Pacific Queen after we lost the Marine View. And he started to work for EC Phillips out of Ketchikan, which was r- my brother bought a boat from another friend, so to speak, that worked for EC Phillips. So he had two boats there, and my brother took over the one boat, so he worked himself into the job.

[00:18:20] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:20] David Sheldon: And mom, mom's boat, which at that time was called the Gene S., uh, we stayed at Icicle until she retired.

[00:18:30] Marianne Forssblad: Wow.

[00:18:30] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, that's right. Yeah. You bought the Donald E. and then you changed the name to the Gene S.

[00:18:36] David Sheldon: Yep.

[00:18:36] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Yeah. W- there was something else everyone... Yeah. Uh, well anyway, th- yeah, Gene died in 1980, and the, and, uh, and the kids were too young then to run the boat, so they had someone else run it. And we were, you know, we were on there.

[00:18:57] Marilyn Sheldon: And another s- weird thing that happened was one night where, uh, Brian was steering, and we were all in our bunks, and there was another man on the boat. But, uh, all of a sudden, we had phones in our rooms, and, and Brian called down and s- said, "Stay in your room. Something's going on." And this is the weirdest thing, but apparently these guys were drunk, and they came out of Wrangell, and they saw the lights on our boat. Now, I don't know if they thought it was a tavern or what. But they actually tied up to the back of our boat, and one guy came up each side into the pilot house. And Brian was 16, I think, and he was steering. And he, you know, he was scared to death 'cause he, th- they, you know, they were out of it. And so anyway, he got the, um, Tom up and, and somehow they got 'em off the boat. But that's what they thought, that they were gonna get more drinks with us, so.

[00:20:11] Gordon Strand: Wow.

[00:20:12] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Do you remember that?

[00:20:13] David Sheldon: It, it was a logging camp. Uh- Out, out of, uh, Coffman Cove. It was a logging camp, and we were traveling at night. And, uh, yeah- She- ... everything she said was, was pretty accurate. They were drunk, and they were... Somehow they got in a skiff and decided to look for a bar somewhere. Which is, there's really no, no place close. Wrangell would've been the closest. So a- anyway, they saw us. So it was dumb luck that we were just traveling at night, and they came up and wanted to know where we were going, which was actually really startling at the time because in the semi-recent year or two before that, there was a, a vessel called the Investor, I think it was, the Investor, and that family was mysteriously murdered-

[00:20:53] Marianne Forssblad: Mm

[00:20:53] David Sheldon: And they tried to scuttle the boat. And they found the guy and, uh, over time, but it was a really big deal. A lot of people were very scared, you know, in that time because here was a whole family murdered for some unknown reason. That was brutal. And it just didn't happen in the industry. It didn't happen like that, you know, out on the water and everything else. So it was just a scary moment- Yeah ... is what it was.

[00:21:17] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, we did have cash boxes in those days. We paid the fishermen with cash. They don't do that any longer. We had to make out fish tickets.

[00:21:27] Gordon Strand: Okay. So if, could you explain that process then? You're working for Icicle, and you're buying fish then from the-

[00:21:36] Marilyn Sheldon: From... we had to run, how many miles? 15 hour.

[00:21:41] David Sheldon: So our, our area where we bought fish pre-

[00:21:43] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, we- ...

[00:21:43] David Sheldon: predominantly for three quarters of the season was called Tree Points. Uh, it's a, it's a gillnet area just on the north side of the Canadian border, so we're in Alaska waters right on the panhandle. And Petersburg by boat was 18 hours from Foggy Bay, which was the north end of our, our area, Foggy Bay. So we ran 18 hours to deliver fish to town and back. And for gillnet, we always started on Sunday noon, still do to this day, Sunday noon. And so we'd have to leave basically Saturday noon to get to the grounds on Sunday noon to buy fish. And then if we had a five-day opening, which was the legal amount of days we could fish, that closed on Friday noon. So four days would've been Thursday noon. Mm. Three days would've been Wednesday noon and down the road. So anyway, uh, yeah. So we, we, we prod- we stayed very busy doing that. It was basically a seven-day-a-week fishery for us.

[00:22:37] Gordon Strand: Wow. '

[00:22:38] David Sheldon: Cause during the pink s- season, we'd have five days a week. So you would literally, even if we got done at, say, Friday night, 6:00, 7:00 PM, we'd run to the- Run through the night, unload the next morning, Saturday, say noon. Turn around, get ice, reload the boat, and run back down for Sunday morning to-

[00:22:58] Gordon Strand: huh

[00:22:59] David Sheldon: ... start the next week.

[00:22:59] Gordon Strand: Wow. Are you in... Is there a competition among tenders, or are you under contract with certain boats or-

[00:23:06] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, there was a competition when we-

[00:23:08] Gordon Strand: Oh, was there?

[00:23:08] Marilyn Sheldon: ... Started. And it, it got so that when the f- when the whole family was on, we had more boats than anyone else. And I'll never forget hearing this one guy say, "It's time we do something about the Gene S., they're getting all the fish." And you know, it w- yeah, it w- it was a competition. And we started out with, like, one or two boats, and we ended up down there with 50.

[00:23:36] Marianne Forssblad: Wow.

[00:23:36] Marilyn Sheldon: So people would say, we, we want... They'd try to get them to go with someone else, and the fisherman would say, "We wanna sell to Gene and Marilyn." 'Cause we were like they were. They were families. At first, I was the only woman, but then eventually girlfriends and wives did come up with their, on, on the gill net boat. But, uh, yeah, they liked the kids and I, I made cake every day. I, you know, I served them food, and sometimes they'd-

[00:24:08] Gordon Strand: Oh ...

[00:24:08] Marilyn Sheldon: come in for dinner and-

[00:24:09] Gordon Strand: The fishermen on the other boat.

[00:24:12] Gordon Strand: Yeah, okay.

[00:24:12] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. So yeah, so and even to this day, I mean, they do.

[00:24:17] David Sheldon: Fishermen back in that day, th- those fishermen were very loyal. Th- they, they stuck with... A lot of times they would say they're, they're fishing for the, the tender, not necessarily the cannery. It, and it was both. Don't get me wrong. We're not trying to say, say that. But you know, the tendermen are a link to them. You know, even today, fishermen stay out and stay on the ground seven days a week. So we bring them fresh water. We bring them fuel. We bring them food. You know, we transport their clothes back and forth to town, you know, for washing. We do th- do these kind- ... of things for them. So there is a s- for some people, there's a, a loyalty that- Yeah ... you know, becomes there. And back in the day it was, it was stronger, I think, you know, than it is today. So, so yeah. You know, everything...

[00:25:05] David Sheldon: for instance, an example of this is back in the day, we unloaded fish, you know, one at a time. Every fish was touched with this fish pough that she had mentioned earlier. It would take hours to unload a boat. Say, a boat comes in with 5,000 pounds. It would take hours to do it, an hour at, at least. And now we're taking 5,000 pounds in about 10 minutes, you know?

[00:25:25] Gordon Strand: Wow.

[00:25:25] David Sheldon: And we have 1,000 pound brailer bags that come in. We pick them up hydraulically, weigh them, dump them in the table, and you know, 10, 12 minutes later they're done and they're leaving. And those guys would wait for hours. They'd wait a half a day on the end of the closure to unload. Mostly 'cause they had to too, that was part of the reason. But nowadays they don't wanna wait two minutes, you know? Um-

[00:25:48] Marianne Forssblad: So how does this compare to what you're telling me, what, what is happening today? Can you talk a little bit about what is happening today then?

[00:25:56] David Sheldon: Y- yeah, yeah. So today, through modern advances is hydraulics. They're are better. Uh, Bristol Bay probably contributed the brailer bag to the industry, to which the boats put fish in, in literally a bag. And they fit in the fish tank, and you literally pick them up with a crane, and you weigh them by a hanging scale t- and drop them on the deck. T- eventually it will go into our fish tank.

[00:26:23] Gordon Strand: Mm.

[00:26:23] David Sheldon: And, and that process is much quicker than doing, you know, one fish. Say you have a, a pink salmon that weighs three pounds, three and a half pounds. So if you have, you know, 1,000 pounds of pinks at three pounds, it's taking quite a bit, you know, quite a lot of fish to, to move that. So yeah, things are, are much improved and easier today than, than they were, uh, back in that 1969 era.

[00:26:45] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, and then-

[00:26:46] David Sheldon: So, yeah ...

[00:26:47] Marilyn Sheldon: yeah, and then there's different species of fish too.

[00:26:50] David Sheldon: Yeah.

[00:26:51] Marilyn Sheldon: I want you to go into that. I mean, the different names like pinks and so-

[00:26:57] David Sheldon: Yeah. So the species of salmon that we deal with are, are predominantly pink salmon, which are also called humpies. Chum salmon, which are called dogs, kind of a slang term-

[00:27:07] Gordon Strand: Mm ...

[00:27:07] David Sheldon: if you wanna call it that.

[00:27:08] Marilyn Sheldon: Cause they have big teeth.

[00:27:10] David Sheldon: You have Coho, which are silver, and King, which are chinook, and, uh, Sockeye, which are reds. So predominantly in our area are pink salmon, especially back in the day, and chum salmon, you know, would be the main, main bulk of our fish. So Coho, King, and Sockeye are, are pretty minimal, pretty minimal.

[00:27:34] Gordon Strand: But how many boats would you service before you take it into, uh, Petersburg?

[00:27:41] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, w- well, that's what I said. At one time there, we had 50 boats, and they'd have to send down other tenders to unload us, 'cause we had so much fish.

[00:27:52] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[00:27:53] Marilyn Sheldon: And I remember one time Bob flew-

[00:27:55] Gordon Strand: So there's 50 gillnetters you mean out there.

[00:27:57] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, 50. I remember Bob flew down and, and I think we had to go over to Annet Island to unload. Do you remember that? 'Cause we had so much fish. See, and it was on the deck and it, it, it didn't keep. I mean, you couldn't... They wouldn't let you do that. But, but that was the thing in those days, the bulk.

[00:28:18] Marilyn Sheldon: I remember one year, the fish didn't come till late. And I can remember Bob was, he was a wreck. I remember we, we all were at someone's house for something, and he actually went down and laid in the b- on the bed there. He was so worried.

[00:28:34] Gordon Strand: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:35] Marilyn Sheldon: 'Cause if you didn't get fish- You know, if he didn't get fish, well, then they weren't making any money.

[00:28:41] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:41] Marilyn Sheldon: And it was... but then all of a sudden it came really late that year. So yeah, Bob was, uh, yeah, Bob was, you know, there was a, they had a boy that was his age and they they would get into, they would be trying to sneak a beer or something, but Bob always caught them. He was something, wasn't he? Yeah. I, I, and he used to fly down, uh, a lot to Ketchikan and get in our boat. He liked to come visit. And Pam would come sometimes and, uh, yeah. Yeah, it was a, it was a good relationship. Yeah. You know, we were-

[00:29:26] Gordon Strand: So how, how long was the family on board the boat, and the boys, and... Just during the fishing season, and then you, you lived somewhere-

[00:29:35] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, we lived in Seattle. Oh,

[00:29:37] Gordon Strand: you had-

[00:29:38] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah

[00:29:38] Gordon Strand: You had to still have the apartment here or a house.

[00:29:40] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, after the apartment, we moved to Fourth Avenue, uh, in a little house. And David, Brian started school at West Woodland.

[00:29:50] Gordon Strand: Okay.

[00:29:50] Marilyn Sheldon: And I think he was in second grade when we bought the house I live in now for 53 years. We've be- we, we moved in there in '73, and then Gene died in '80. And he had a heart attack on the, on the boat, and I wasn't on. He was up for herring, and I st- had to stay home 'cause the kids were... But I can remember Bob and Pam came over, and I, I can still see Bob sitting on the couch next to me, and he took my hand and he said, "You know, Gene was the finest man I've ever known."

[00:30:29] Marianne Forssblad: Oh.

[00:30:29] Marilyn Sheldon: And I've never forgotten that because-

[00:30:32] Marianne Forssblad: So you have lived in Ballard a long time. What is your impression of the changes that you have seen during those many years that you lived here and now?

[00:30:42] Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure the fish are in better shape, but I don't think the relationships are, you know, with the, with the people. You know, and, and I don't know from what he tells me. I, I, I don't know. I don't think I'd be too happy on... Uh, you know, they're way more demanding and, and, uh, but I'm sure the fish are in better shape.

[00:31:08] David Sheldon: Yeah. Your question was about quality of the fish from, from then to now?

[00:31:11] Marianne Forssblad: No, i'm thinking of the quality of just living in Ballard.

[00:31:14] David Sheldon: Well, Ballard's completely-

[00:31:15] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, in Ballard. Oh, that's totally different ...

[00:31:18] Marianne Forssblad: the community, the community-

[00:31:19] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah ...

[00:31:19] Marianne Forssblad: And the community of the fish- fishing, uh, community.

[00:31:24] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh. Yeah. Well, there's not near as many fishermen here now. Well, a lot of them I'm sure have died, you know, but, um- Yeah, no, I mean, when we, when we first lived here it was a fishing community, you know. People spoke Norwegian and, and-

[00:31:42] Marianne Forssblad: That was my point ... yeah.

[00:31:43] Marilyn Sheldon: How, how- Yeah, no, it's totally different. And I can't imagine who lives in all these apartments they're building. You know, I, I don't know. David knows a lot of the older fishermen, you know, that are in their 60s and 70s now, but, uh, yeah. Uh, yeah, it's, it's just different.

[00:32:06] Gordon Strand: Do you have any favorite memories from when you were young and on the boat, and what life was like for you or your parents?

[00:32:13] Marilyn Sheldon: Remember when we had to go up and grade fish?

[00:32:15] David Sheldon: Uh.

[00:32:15] Marilyn Sheldon: And show them how to

[00:32:17] David Sheldon: Yeah, there was things like that. So grading fish is telling the different species, you know, between the p- pinks and the chums and the sockeye. And I was, I was pretty good at that at a young age. And, uh, Bob Thorson apparently asked me to go up and help him grade the fish up on the dock, you know, where they pump it out. So-

[00:32:36] Marilyn Sheldon: He was seven

[00:32:37] David Sheldon: ... anyway, uh.

[00:32:37] Gordon Strand: Seven.

[00:32:38] David Sheldon: Pr- pretty young, pretty young age. But, uh, yeah, yeah, we, I mean, there was a lot of good times.

[00:32:44] David Sheldon: Every summer of my life has been on the boat from, I think, day three, did you say I was on the boat- Yeah ... day three after I was born. So, uh, you know, every birthday has, has been on the boat and, and things like that. So, um, yeah, I'll, I'll just say one story about a, a birthday. Uh, very young. Couldn't tell you how old I was, but I used to fish her- herring in town all the time.

[00:33:07] David Sheldon: It was fun, and l- a little fish. Anyway, Mom sent me outside to go fish herr- you know, fish herring. Well, there's no herring where we were. I knew that, you know. And she's like, "I don't care. Go out there and fish." And next thing I know, uh, I'm thinking, "What's going on?" And I, I hear a poof, and out from the, down from the sky comes a bunch of soot coming out of our diesel stove. Mom was trying to make me a birthday cake. And the, the fire, the, uh, the soot backfired and blew into the thing, and there went my birthday cake. So, but she was trying. But anyway, things like that, you know, pop out. And yeah, we had a lot of, a lot of good times and ...

[00:33:51] Gordon Strand: Was there more crew on the boat? I mean, how many on the boat?

[00:33:56] Marilyn Sheldon: Uh, let's see. Well-

[00:34:00] David Sheldon: When we were younger, we, when my brother was four and a half years older than, than me, so when we were both younger kids, uh, we had an, an older deckhand, you know- To- ... to do the work.

[00:34:11] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, after Gene. Yeah. It, but, but, uh, most of the time it was just the family. The b- the best thing was after Gene died, and then they were, like Brian had, would have his friends come be a deckhand. And then when Brian, you know, got older and got his own boat, then David. So, you know, I had wonderful, I had the kids, you know, that I knew on the boat. But now it's just, I'm sure it, it's very difficult, he knows, to get a decent deckhand-

[00:34:46] Marianne Forssblad: Hmm ...

[00:34:47] Marilyn Sheldon: On the boat. So it's just a different, you know, it's a different world.

[00:34:52] Marilyn Sheldon: And people, they expect so much. And though, I mean, they were... I remember the kid that was with us when Gene died. He said, "I don't, I don't want my paycheck." He said, "Y- I know you need it more than I do." Now who would ever say that today? No one. I mean, so it, yeah, it's totally... I, I couldn't do it today. I wouldn't wanna do it, but it was fun with the, you know, with the kids and, and, uh.

[00:35:22] Marilyn Sheldon: But then an- another thing that happened to him was Brian died on his boat up there-

[00:35:28] Gordon Strand: Right ...

[00:35:28] Marilyn Sheldon: Of a heart attack, and they called him and said they thought his brother died, so he had to go out and-

[00:35:35] Gordon Strand: Hmm ...

[00:35:36] Speaker 3: do all of that, you know, down in-

[00:35:38] Gordon Strand: Yeah. What year was that? I remember going to the memorials. Didn't, wasn't there a service at the-

[00:35:43] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, yeah. We had the memorial here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:47] David Sheldon: That w- It was 2010.

[00:35:49] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah.

[00:35:49] Gordon Strand: Okay. 2010.

[00:35:50] Marianne Forssblad: So Marilyn, when did you retire from being a fisher, a fishing man or fishing woman ?

[00:35:56] Marilyn Sheldon: I ca- I was, I think I was 60. And I, and the reason I retired is 'cause I had to have hip surgery. So I knew I couldn't be doing ladders and stuff anymore. You know, when I was pregnant on the boat, uh, it was hard to do the ladder. And they used to, uh, Gene would put me in one of the, it was called a tote. It was a big plastic container that they put the fish in to take up. That's how I go up and down on the, with the hydraulics. Wasn't that ... Well, you would know because-

[00:36:30] David Sheldon: Yeah. They used to boom us up, you know, with the crane. Oh. And we would sit in the fish, what they call the fish tote, fish traco. And yeah- ... we were too small to do the ladder. Uh, nowadays that would be completely not allowed-

[00:36:45] Gordon Strand: No ...

[00:36:45] David Sheldon: on OSHA purposes and everything else, you know. But, but yeah, it, like I said, everything was a different, different world back then, you know. So, yeah.

[00:36:54] Marilyn Sheldon: We, we had cats on the boat. Then they made a rule, no pets. And I remem- I remember that one time we had to deliver fish, we had so much fish at the cannery there, we had to take it to Rupert. Remember when we had the cats down in the... Oh, God. We were so afraid, 'cause they were so strict with their fish rules. And they'd come down in their white coats and examine everything. And we, we knew we, they would never allow pets, so we had to put them down in my stateroom. And we put the r- the music on and, and we were trying to do... 'Cause we thought if they start going around the boat. 'Cause the cats were meowing like mad.

[00:37:43] Marilyn Sheldon: I mean, we had, we, you know, those are th- things that were scary then, but you look back and it, it was funny. Yeah. Yeah, we... Yeah, it was hard. A lot of people had dogs. And some... And you know what? The dogs wouldn't go potty on their boat. They'd come over and go on ours. I remember having the, having you guys having to hose down a lot. Or sometimes they'd put them in a, in a skiff and take them to shore. 'Cause when we bought fish, we anchored out in these p- near the land, you know. Sometimes you'd see bears walking around. And, uh, yeah. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was...

[00:38:32] Marilyn Sheldon: and oh, and then, you know, we had, Alaska had just gotten statehood a year after I went up. Well, in '58. Now, I went up there in '59. So we did have the ferries come in then with produce and things, but that was another thing that, you know, all that f- good food that we like down here, that was really scarce and really expensive. But eventually there were, uh, I don't know, farmers or whatever that would bring up produce and park somewhere, and the townspeople would come, and they'd be sold out, you know, in no time. So yeah, it was, it was just a different world, but it was, it was hard, but it was good.

[00:39:19] Marianne Forssblad: Then y- I might want to ask you, when did you decide to become involved with the museum? That was after you had retired, of course. But-

[00:39:28] Marilyn Sheldon: No, I wasn't retired. You weren't retired. I, no, I was, um, but you know, I was free in the w- I wasn't nursing then. Ev- for, for a while, I, I did nursing at night and all, but then it got to be too much. It was when we moved into the house over, you know, near the museum. And, um-

[00:39:51] Marianne Forssblad: Oh, you mean right now.

[00:39:52] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. And, and Bob, I don't know, B- B- Bob suggested it to me or, or because they were active here, I guess, Bob and Pam.

[00:40:01] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah, they were very active.

[00:40:04] Marilyn Sheldon: They, yeah.

[00:40:04] Marianne Forssblad: Bob was very active.

[00:40:04] Marilyn Sheldon: And so they, and he told me they needed volunteers. But then I think he told you, because I remember you called me.

[00:40:12] Marianne Forssblad: Yes. Yeah. He called my-

[00:40:13] Marilyn Sheldon: And, and, and- Yeah ... so I tried it. And, you know, I, I liked it. And you know, I, yeah, I, I, um, as-

[00:40:22] Gordon Strand: Well, you ran the place there.

[00:40:24] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, no. But I loved the kitchen, you know-

[00:40:28] Marianne Forssblad: Yes.

[00:40:28] Marilyn Sheldon: Working with, uh-

[00:40:28] Marianne Forssblad: You work- worked with Elsa ...

[00:40:30] Marilyn Sheldon: uh, Corina and all those. And when they'd get started in their languages, and they'd be swearing. And I'll never forget when, um, oh, who, Mary. Mary was so quiet. She always helped in the kitchen, but she never did anything else. But Mary wouldn't say a bad word. Uh, but one day she just had it with, with Corina and Barbara, you know.

[00:41:01] Gordon Strand: Oh, Barbara?

[00:41:02] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah.

[00:41:02] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Yes. And, and Mary said, "Oh, shit." And we just all broke down. I mean, it sounded so funny coming from Mary. I really miss those people. They're all, all gone now. Mary died, I guess, last fall, so, uh, you know, and Margaret and yeah.

[00:41:23] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah.

[00:41:23] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, and oh, think of all the cookies that we used to have at, uh, the, you know, the Scandinavian cookies. And I can still see them all sitting back there making the yule, uh, yeah, buttering the-

[00:41:38] Marianne Forssblad: Yes ...

[00:41:38] Marilyn Sheldon: the, the krumkake.

[00:41:38] Marianne Forssblad: And, and of course they baked for Julefest.

[00:41:43] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, yeah.

[00:41:44] Marianne Forssblad: That's what Corina started.

[00:41:44] Marilyn Sheldon: It was wonderful.

[00:41:46] Marianne Forssblad: Yes. And I know you were involved in that.

[00:41:49] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, I did a lot of baking. Yeah. Oh, I remember, I u- I would make five cakes, and they would be gone. And I'd go home and make three more that night. Well, I used to, that, you know, a batter, but I mean, I still... Yeah, 'cause it, the food just went.

[00:42:09] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[00:42:09] Marilyn Sheldon: And I, I liked to help at the... Well, you used to serve, too. We all did. And my sister, she and I did a lot, yeah.

[00:42:18] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah, you were very much involved together with your sister.

[00:42:21] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah.

[00:42:22] Gordon Strand: When did she come to Seattle, or?

[00:42:25] Marilyn Sheldon: Carol, oh, Carol came when Brian was a baby. Oh, she was working in Hawaii as a nurse, and then she came to visit on her way back home, and she liked it so much that, uh, she stayed and started to work at the university hospital. And then she met Bill, got married. So then they lived here- Uh, you know, I think Chris, their son, was five. Then they moved back to Maine. And then when he was 10 they were divorced, and she moved back here then. Yeah. And then she became active in the museum too.

[00:43:07] Marianne Forssblad: Yes.

[00:43:07] Marilyn Sheldon: She helped with all the-

[00:43:08] Marianne Forssblad: And you used to come together often,

[00:43:09] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, with the food stuff.

[00:43:11] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah.

[00:43:11] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Yeah, I really miss her. We did everything together. So, but that's life. So-

[00:43:21] Gordon Strand: Yeah ...

[00:43:22] Marilyn Sheldon: yeah. Anyway, I don't know. What else? Well, now you're into, he's into crabbing and all kinds of stuff, so. Which I told him no, but he didn't listen to me.

[00:43:37] Gordon Strand: Told him no? Why?

[00:43:39] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, I, I thought, I, I mean, who wants to get into crabbing? I don't know.

[00:43:44] Gordon Strand: Yeah, isn't it the most dangerous of the fishing?

[00:43:48] David Sheldon: It is, yeah. Winter fishery in the Bering Sea-

[00:43:51] Gordon Strand: Yeah ...

[00:43:51] David Sheldon: Potentially doesn't add up to a lot of fun. Bad weather, big seas, cold weather, icing conditions. Factors that add, uh, lower your stability. You know, icing and water on deck is heavy, and things change pretty rapidly up there sometimes.

[00:44:11] Gordon Strand: Did your dad ever try to push you in some other direction from fishing or...?

[00:44:17] David Sheldon: No, not that I, no, not that I remember. Of course, I was, what, 10, 11, you know, at that time, so we weren't talking career choices. But, um, probably the career choice that I did make was, uh, the Marine View was the previous boat we had before the Gene S, which was a family boat. My dad had bought that after the Emily Jane. So she had mentioned earlier the Emily Jane was 65 feet. As my brother and I grew, the family got a little bit bigger and the boat became a little bit smaller, so he bought another boat called the Marine View, which was 82 feet.

[00:44:50] Marianne Forssblad: Oh, wow.

[00:44:50] David Sheldon: So we were on that for a few years. And my brother was captain in training and, and had an accident and, and put the boat on the beach.

[00:44:59] David Sheldon: So a long story, or short story from that is the boat was lost, um, due to the circumstances. So the Marine View was gone, and then mom needed a, a job. She needed a, a career. And, uh, we, we f- we went with a, another tender for one year before we bought the Gene S, and that's when she realized that she couldn't make a living working three months a year, you know, for wages on another boat. So she bought another boat.

[00:45:30] David Sheldon: So at that time, um, that was 1990, I, I was gonna go into gillnetting 'cause that's what we were used to dealing with, gillnet fleet. And my brother, I, we, we assumed was gonna run the new boat. Uh, at that time he bought into the Pacific Queen- So he went, you know, he went his own way, and I s- kind of switched gears because Mom needed somebody, you know, to be with her in, in that boat. So even though I was too young at 20 to, you know, run the boat and do things like that, there's still a lot of maintenance and work and different things that, you know, she would absolutely need help with in the winter and things like that, you know, to do. So I kind of changed my direction, my projection, and, and stayed with her, uh, you know, at that point, and that's what I- I'm still doing today, so.

[00:46:23] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah, and you're going up now pretty soon, one of the-

[00:46:26] David Sheldon: Yeah, so we, for salmon, we always start in the third Sunday of June.

[00:46:31] Marianne Forssblad: Of June.

[00:46:32] David Sheldon: And that's kind of in the books, you know, the government opening up our fishery. So we always tend to leave, you know, sometime around the 14th or so, 12th of June, to get the boat up there and get ready for that, so. So yeah, pretty-

[00:46:47] Marilyn Sheldon: But now you're going up to Dutch Harbor.

[00:46:48] David Sheldon: Well, the, uh, you, you might be thinking, yeah. Potentially I might be going up to Dutch Harbor here i- in a week and asked to work on the other, other crab boats that are... when they get done with their fishery, so. So yeah. Salmon, salmon only lasts from June, and we're j- typically home first week of October at the latest for what we do for salmon.

[00:47:09] Gordon Strand: Five months.

[00:47:11] David Sheldon: Uh, yeah. So yeah, we'd say, say mid, mid June, so you know, mid July, mid August, mid September, and pretty much end of September, first week of October, home. So say three and a half months for salmon. Mm. Um, and then we used to do herring as well. The boat used to do herring back when Dad was alive, in the southeast mostly.

[00:47:33] David Sheldon: So we would go up, we'd leave about mid-March, you know, to go participate in a couple herring fisheries. Uh, back in the day, there was a Kashagik gillnet fishery that's pretty much no longer viable. Uh, the Sitka herring fishery, which is very big, and there was a couple other ones in southeast, Seymour herring, Hobart herring, Annette Island herring were, were fisheries that we could have, or did participate over the years. And so that, that would put the boat up there in March, so sometimes we're up there, you know, six or seven months, you know, at that point.

[00:48:06] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:48:06] David Sheldon: 'Cause we real- we, it was hard to come home, you know, and have any meaningful time off. You might get a week, you know, I'd get a week in between seasons, you know. So yeah.

[00:48:14] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:48:15] David Sheldon: But, uh-

[00:48:16] Marilyn Sheldon: And we used to buy halibut.

[00:48:19] David Sheldon: Yeah. Back in the days, we bought halibut and even black cod, and now they've changed that to an IFQ fishery, so that no longer is a viable tending, you know, tending operation. The fishermen can go out during- many months of the year and catch a quota that they, they owe, earned, that they bought, you know? And, um-

[00:48:40] Gordon Strand: Oh, for halibut you mean?

[00:48:41] David Sheldon: Yeah. So back, they called it the derby days. Back in the older days, they called it the derby days. The state would open it up for, say, one day or two days, and anybody under the sun could go buy a permit for whatever, $20. I think they were pretty cheap. So you had boats going out, setting thousands of hooks, and you had guys going out with a jig, you know-

[00:49:01] Marianne Forssblad: Mm

[00:49:01] David Sheldon: and a skiff. And you caught what you could catch in that 24-hour period. So it was that, what they call a derby, you know- Oh ... cowboy fishery or whatever.

[00:49:11] Gordon Strand: So under the quota you're limited to.

[00:49:13] David Sheldon: So, yeah. So what they do on these fisheries, when they go with the IFQ fishery, they did it for crab, halibut, black cod. They give them a qualifying years, you know, say, whatever, four or five years timeframe. And whatever average the fishermen caught in those years, they kind of gr- group it together, and then they give them units. It's not based on pounds, it's based on units. So the total allowable catch, they call it the TAC, total allowable catch, is in units, and that's broken down to the, what, what the fishermen, each fisherman own.

[00:49:49] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:49:49] David Sheldon: So everything goes up and down together.

[00:49:51] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:51] David Sheldon: So as a quota goes up, your units go up. When the quota goes down, your units go down.

[00:49:56] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:56] David Sheldon: So let's say, let's say this year the fisherman has 10,000 pounds of halibut to catch, and it doubles next year. Now they have 20,000 pounds of halibut to catch. So it's always fluctuating-

[00:50:08] Gordon Strand: Wow ...

[00:50:08] David Sheldon: with the, with the TAC.

[00:50:10] Gordon Strand: What, what causes the change from...?

[00:50:13] David Sheldon: Uh, predominantly, I think the number one answer to that was safety, especially in the Bering Sea fleet. Um, when, when you're, when you have, you know, a, a 24-hour period to, to catch something, you might be out in rough weather, potentially dangerous situations. You might overfill the boat, make it unstable, things like this. So they're trying to make it, you know, safer for the fishermen. But that's not necessarily the cure-all for-

[00:50:46] Marianne Forssblad: Mm ...

[00:50:46] David Sheldon: for everything either. So, so back in the day when we had these wide open fisheries, we were able to tend that. As a tender, we were able to go out and buy that, that product for the cannery and bring it in t- for them to process. Nowadays, all the fish come, you know, in, into the, to the plant itself and- deliver to the cannery. So, so yeah

[00:51:07] Marilyn Sheldon: Another thing are prices. I mean, I can't get over what he, what he's buying fish for. It, it was pennies- I know. Prices ... you know, when, when, I remember once I overpaid by one cent, and I had to collect it back the next week from everybody.

[00:51:26] Gordon Strand: You would. Wow.

[00:51:27] David Sheldon: One, one penny a pound.

[00:51:27] Marilyn Sheldon: Think about one cent.

[00:51:28] David Sheldon: Yeah, one penny.

[00:51:29] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah, it was, I don't know n- I can't believe what they, what he pays now. I remember we had a fisherman once, the, for king salmon, they got a lot of money for red king salmon, but not, very little for white. Hm. And that guy had five kings, and he kept, he was dressing them or, you know, taking the-

[00:51:59] David Sheldon: Gutting, gutting the fish

[00:51:59] Marilyn Sheldon: While, while we were tied up. And the first one was white. He threw it over. Every one of those was white, and he was absolutely furious. He just threw them over. And actually, I like the white king salmon better than the red to eat. That's my favorite fish. But-

[00:52:19] Gordon Strand: Oh, really? Yeah ...

[00:52:20] Marilyn Sheldon: yeah. But anyway, it w- yeah, there were some, he, some strange people. Yeah, there were some strange people. There was some that I didn't really like to deal with, but you know, it's just whatever. You, you get used to it, so, yeah.

[00:52:42] Gordon Strand: Do you, do you moor your boats down here at the-

[00:52:46] David Sheldon: Yeah, the Gene S is, is down here. Uh, you know, if we're fishing three and a half years, say it's in Seattle six months a year nowadays. So we, we've always been in the fisherman terminal area with the boat. The other boats when they come down, if they come down, we only get about a month with them here, you know, before we have to turn around and go to the other fishery. They participate in other fisheries, cod fishing-

[00:53:07] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm ...

[00:53:08] David Sheldon: uh, potentially King crab, Bairdi, and Opilio crab, and, and tend as well.

[00:53:15] David Sheldon: And, uh, if we can find some other work for them, you know, we try to do that if we can fit it in, but it keeps the boat, those boats very busy. So we're lucky to have a month, a month of, you know, shipyard time we call it, where we repair the boats, you know. And, uh, other than that, we just try and do it in between.

[00:53:32] Gordon Strand: That's the only time I was involved on the boat. I had to work on my dad's boat, painting the pallets that they had and the halibut, you know?

[00:53:41] David Sheldon: Yeah.

[00:53:42] Gordon Strand: I was a kid, you know.

[00:53:42] Marilyn Sheldon: Did you ever paint?

[00:53:44] Gordon Strand: Oh, I had to, yeah.

[00:53:45] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah.

[00:53:45] Gordon Strand: That was my job.

[00:53:47] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, I remember I had to paint too after Gene died. I remember that. But oh, golly, yeah. Well, there's a lot of work to them.

[00:53:56] Gordon Strand: Oh.

[00:53:58] Marilyn Sheldon: And then- I can imagine ... you know, now the Coast Guard checks them. Uh, to be sure everything's okay and, and you have to be, you know, there's a lot of rules and regulations, so, which is good

[00:54:13] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:54:15] Gordon Strand: Well, yeah, the safety, I was curious about, uh, is there... I mean, you go down to the memorial and you still see s- names being added to that. I just, how often or what, what's the conditions up, is it weather or what causes that stuff?

[00:54:33] David Sheldon: Yeah, mostly. Some of it's stupidity, some of it's bad luck, you know. Uh, there was a story we worked with a boat coincidentally ma- many, many years ago called the Leconte. It was, it made the paper here. I think it had a three-day article, you know, in the paper and, uh, during, during the, the story of the Leconte, it, it sunk out at sea outside, um, in the Gulf of Alaska in bad weather. A, it shouldn't have been out in that bad weather. I think it was 50-plus knot winds. The boat wasn't that big, but the biggest factor of all was it had a loose plank, and it said this in the article. And when they, they would go by, that plank would spring because the fasteners were rot- rotted in it.

[00:55:17] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:55:17] David Sheldon: And they would go by and tap it in with a hammer. This is in the article, I don't know firsthand. But that's a major, major problem right there, and the boat sunk probably because of that plank, or others that were in that bad a shape as well. So yeah, that, o- that was a bad decision, you know, to be out in that weather.

[00:55:41] David Sheldon: So, uh, there's... And obviously things happen at inopportune times, right? Most, most problems don't occur at the dock. They occur out in bad situations that make things worse.

[00:55:51] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:55:51] David Sheldon: So, yeah.

[00:55:53] Marianne Forssblad: How is the recruitment of help nowadays? Is it difficult? Is it harder to get-

[00:55:58] David Sheldon: Yes. Yes ...

[00:55:59] Marianne Forssblad: proper, proper-

[00:56:01] David Sheldon: Help is the biggest disappointment in our industry and it, it's industry-wide.

[00:56:05] David Sheldon: People, people, for instance, we had one, one replacement deckhand miss four airplane flights in two days with no warning, you know. Uh, you know, uh, s- and it's just on and on and on. I had a person walk off. I was off the boat for five minutes, and the person walked off the boat without telling me. They quit or they left.

[00:56:31] Gordon Strand: Ooh.

[00:56:31] David Sheldon: You know? I mean, uh, you know. So yeah, it's, uh, it, it's that way for everybody in, in every, every area, you know, of fishing or, or maybe even elsewhere in this world. But the biggest disappointment these days are, are, are crew. So, so yeah, it's, it's, it's difficult to explain. They just, uh, they don't wanna honor their word. You know, they sign on for a certain amount of time- And whatever. I mean, it's just, it's difficult to keep them

[00:57:03] Marianne Forssblad: They are not willing to give so much as they did in the past, so-

[00:57:06] David Sheldon: Yeah, they all have their ideas too on what they're worth.

[00:57:09] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:09] David Sheldon: And they have grandiose ideas on different things. Uh, down, being down on the dock when The Deadliest Catch started getting popular, people would come down there and wanna get on a crab boat in the middle of summer. Well, that, that fishery, the show might come on in the middle of the summer, but the crab have been caught, processed months earlier, you know? So they're-

[00:57:31] Marianne Forssblad: Mm ...

[00:57:31] David Sheldon: all they know is they wanna get on the crab boat. Well, back in the heyday, you didn't, back in the heyday, there was so much money in those industries that the crews didn't wanna get off the boats. They did whatever needed to be done to keep their job. So these days with this IFQ implemented fishery, and the quotas are down right now, th- the, the IFQ fisherman, you know, gets a percentage of the crab. So let's just say for instance, an Opilio crab, an IFQ fisherman will get 50% of the, of that and the boat gets 50% of that. That, that's the makeup. Then the crew will get 40% of what the boat earns after food, fuel, and bait. So those expenses come off the top. Oh, sure. Then the crew gets 40% of that, and then whatever's left comes to the owners. That's a general statement, but it's pretty accurate. So right from the top you're seeing 50% cut in half, right? In the old days, that 50%, that IFQ program wasn't there so they got, they got a 40% of the whole, the whole delivery- Whole delivery ... you know?

[00:58:39] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[00:58:40] David Sheldon: So it's difficult for people to g- go from that era to see their income get cut in half. I understand.

[00:58:48] Gordon Strand: Wow.

[00:58:48] David Sheldon: But it's also been a long time coming. But people still remember the old days, you know, and we're living in a different era now. We're living in the IFQ fishery.

[00:58:58] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:58:58] David Sheldon: So what I tell people is, I didn't vote for this. I just, I'm just working within the boundaries of what the program is, like we all are. I mean, every boat's doing the same thing. So just for the boat to go fishing, you have to secure those IFQs. So the poundage is expensive to, to buy, so we lease them, you know, from people. We guarantee that we catch that crab. So for instance, if we don't catch that crab, if you own that crab and we don't catch your crab, we guarantee that we pay for it. So we, we have to pay you out of pocket for crab we didn't catch.

[00:59:32] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[00:59:33] Gordon Strand: Really?

[00:59:33] David Sheldon: So that's a difficult program sometimes. So we really wanna catch our crab. We're very motivated to catch that crab, right? So, so yeah, our first year operating a vessel, that happened. Um, the vessel broke down and we didn't catch the crab that we were on the hook for, and me and my partner ended up essentially paying out, uh, uh, just over $100,000 to people on crab that we didn't catch. To start out that year, that way, under new ownership of a boat, and bills and everything, that was a very, very difficult, you know, hurdle at that time. You know, but w- we had to do it. It was the right thing to do. That's what we-

[01:00:12] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, I kept reminding him of it too..

[01:00:13] David Sheldon: ... That's what we signed on for, you know, so, so yeah.

[01:00:17] David Sheldon: Yeah, those are some of the changes that, that have come, you know, along the way. And, and over the years, one of the biggest, um, factors in, in the fisherman's price of fish is, especially salmon, for instance salmon, is the farm- the farm fish. When the farm fish came along-

[01:00:35] Marianne Forssblad: Oh ...

[01:00:35] David Sheldon: it decimated the wild fisherman's-

[01:00:37] Marianne Forssblad: Oh

[01:00:37] David Sheldon: Price. Many people in our industry went out of b- went out of business. They went broke. The f- the price got in half, you know, to the fisherman, the vessel price. They still had the same bills to pay, the permit, you know, the loan payments, the boat payments. All those still were existing at a higher, at a higher price when they bought in, right? So it was a very, very difficult time. And we, we still live with it today. Farm fish is obviously in the market. You know, it's a very big competitor of wild salmon. Mm-hmm. And, and, um, yeah, I mean, there's some good and there's bad in everything, so.

[01:01:11] Marianne Forssblad: Well, you re- if you have children, I don't know, but if you had sons, would you recommend them to continue what you're doing?

[01:01:18] David Sheldon: That's tough, you know. I don't have children. Um, and I've always felt that, uh, education is the better way to go, and you're talking to a high school graduate. So, uh, um, in one respect, we had a choice. Don't get me wrong. We had a choice to do what we wanna do.

[01:01:37] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:37] David Sheldon: But I also think that we made a choice to be with the family as well. So that was a big... If not the number one factor for, for me, it was definitely number two.

[01:01:49] Marianne Forssblad: Be a mother.

[01:01:50] David Sheldon: Yeah. So I don't-

[01:01:51] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, he, he had, you had two years. You were ready to go to Western.

[01:01:55] David Sheldon: I was ready. Yeah. I was gonna go to college.

[01:01:57] Marilyn Sheldon: You were-

[01:01:57] David Sheldon: And like I said, when my brother went his way- ...

[01:01:59] Marilyn Sheldon: two years ...

[01:02:00] David Sheldon: you know, my potential path changed at that, at that moment too. We weren't expecting him to do that. Um, and I was going on my way, because he was gonna be the captain of the vessel, and I was gonna be a lifelong deckhand. And I can't make an income- ... being a lifelong deckhand, so.

[01:02:17] Marianne Forssblad: So now you are the captain.

[01:02:18] David Sheldon: Yeah, it was a natural progression for me, I felt, to go, because I, I wouldn't expect it any other way. He was first in line, the oldest son, whatever you wanna call it. It was... He, he was doing the job before I did the job. So, uh, we didn't get along the best either, you know? So it made sense in more ways than one, but... So I look back at that, because my second year into gillnetting, farm fish would've hit the, hit the market then, and that's when we would've been decimated, and I would've been there with him, 'cause I would've had all those bills of a new permit and a new boat.

[01:02:52] David Sheldon: So in, in hindsight, after all this is over, the best career choice for me was to do what we're doing. Between the two, right?

[01:02:59] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:00] David Sheldon: So no, there's no regrets here, but we all make decisions.

[01:03:03] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:03] Gordon Strand: Right.

[01:03:04] David Sheldon: So yeah.

[01:03:05] Marianne Forssblad: That's a positive answer.

[01:03:07] David Sheldon: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a, a saying in the fishing industry or, you know, fishing, "Stick and stay and make it pay." So some of these guys jump all over the place, and they miss something left behind, right? So sometimes a good fisherman stays at one point, set after set, tide after tide. Learns that area, the movements, and what, you know, fish are doing at those times, and he gets very familiar with things, figures things out. And a lot of times that's the best move is just to stick and stay. Not always, but, you know-

[01:03:38] Marianne Forssblad: Mm ...

[01:03:39] David Sheldon: sometimes. So yeah.

[01:03:42] David Sheldon: Was there anything else you could, wanna tell? Any s- good, the good stories?

[01:03:48] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, I have a lot, but I think that's all right now.

[01:03:53] Gordon Strand: No.

[01:03:54] Marilyn Sheldon: No, I, I think that's, I don't know. Pretty much.

[01:03:59] David Sheldon: I'll say this about her, 'cause she mentioned that she was one of the w- few women in the industry.

[01:04:04] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[01:04:05] David Sheldon: Uh, I've heard from several sources that she held her own during those times in a male-dominated industry. So, uh, you know, the, you know, there's good days and bad days in everything, but sh- she did, she did all right along the way, too.

[01:04:21] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, oh, there's that one story. W- the year after, the year after Gene died and, uh, the kids were there. And we had Tom was running the boat. He was an ex-Coast Guard guy that lived in Petersburg. And we had just gotten done with our rounds and tied up in Foggy Bay. And, uh, I had just taken the, the casserole that I had made for dinner, you know, for us to sit down. Here comes all the Coast Guard from Ketchikan, all the big boat, the little boats, everybody. And we thought, "Now what's going on?" Now, rubber raft got off, and he's going around our boat. And pretty soon they board us. And they want, uh, I mean, they were awful. And they said, "Who owns this boat?" Well, I owned it, you know, so all the questions were to me. And, uh, they searched our boat. I mean, it was the most re- They went into his bunk. He, for some reason, he collected wallets. I mean, he was 11 years old. And, uh, y- they went through everything. They went through his books. They tore his b- bed apart. And, and there was a, wasn't there a hose connection under your mattress or something?

[01:05:44] David Sheldon: There was an oil fill-

[01:05:45] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah ...

[01:05:46] David Sheldon: In between, under my bunk mattress and in between the drawers.

[01:05:51] Marilyn Sheldon: And I can still hear them go, "Aha!" They thought they'd caught it. And you know, it- They, I mean, they went through everything in my stateroom. They w- tore our whole boat apart, and of course they don't put anything back together. And they were looking for drugs.

[01:06:09] Gordon Strand: Oh.

[01:06:09] Marilyn Sheldon: And see, they were so jealous of us. Somebody had turned us in that we had drugs on the boat.

[01:06:17] Marianne Forssblad: Oh.

[01:06:17] Marilyn Sheldon: And, uh, oh, I mean, you can't imagine how scared I... I can't remember, then they just left, I guess, didn't they? But oh, Bob Thorsett was furious-

[01:06:29] Gordon Strand: Oh, yeah ...

[01:06:29] Marilyn Sheldon: When we told him. I mean, you know, 'cause he knew with the kids and all-

[01:06:34] Gordon Strand: I'm just curious ...

[01:06:34] Marilyn Sheldon: how dramatic-

[01:06:35] Gordon Strand: Do they have a search warrant for that or is that-

[01:06:37] David Sheldon: No do they need that?

[01:06:38] Marilyn Sheldon: No, they just come on.

[01:06:40] David Sheldon: No, we remember... So our skipper at the time was ex-Coast Guard, so he understood what was happening. We didn't understand what was happening. But they came, we came back from the end of the day into Foggy Bay where w- where we spend the night, and, and that's the end of our, our daily operations. And they came from town, Ketchikan, at the same time. They came in there, came right over to us. There was a 90-footer there, 90-footer Coast Guard vessel, and a 40-footer Coast Guard vessel. The 40-footer was an escort vessel to escort us back to town. So they expected to make an arrest. Oh. And th- they, in particular, wanted to see m- my, my stateroom.

[01:07:17] David Sheldon: So it, on, on any boat, underneath the bunk is drawers that you pull out. Yeah Under the settee in the galley is cupboards. I mean, every possible empty space on a boat is some kind of storage. So in this case, my dad had a hydraulic tank from the engine room below us, and the fill pipe was in between that bunk with a little pull-out, you know, lid. So when they, they got into that area, they thought they found some hidey-hole. And, and a- a- I mean, after all, I mean, it was a, it was very, very thorough, very thorough throughout our whole boat. And at the end, they threatened to, to give us a fine for having a fender over our hailing port on the back of the boat.

[01:07:57] Gordon Strand: Oh.

[01:07:57] David Sheldon: And, uh, yeah, they w- they weren't very kind that day, let's put it that way.

[01:08:02] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, and then remember when-

[01:08:03] David Sheldon: Oh, yeah ...

[01:08:03] Marilyn Sheldon: we went to town, they were anchored up there, and then To- oh, our captain, he was, the, Tom was quite funny. He said, "Get your undies together. You're gonna be going to jail now." And, but you know, they didn't do anything then, but I mean, that was, ugh.

[01:08:23] David Sheldon: So even at the end of this week, at the end of our fishing week, we were finished up. We totally, we fish- finished around 6:00, 7:00 at night. We close at noon. By the time we get our work done, we're usually one of the last boats there because we had a bigger fleet, so it took us more time to get through the fleet. But we were hauling our anchor to, to head to Petersburg to deliver our fish, and out of nowhere, this Coast Guard helicopter comes by this-

[01:08:45] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah ...

[01:08:45] David Sheldon: little inlet right above the water. I, I, I just remember that noise exploding out of nowhere, boom, boom, boom, you know? They're right over the water. They're looking right at us- We didn't know what the hell was going on, you know. And they insisted, uh, Bob, Bob called them, or, or maybe it was Wally. The company called them. Wally. I said, "Well, call them."

[01:09:06] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah.

[01:09:06] David Sheldon: And said, "What's happening with the Sheldons down there," you know. And they, they said that was a routine check. Trust me, there was nothing routine about what they did-

[01:09:14] Gordon Strand: No ...

[01:09:14] David Sheldon: And the extent they did it.

[01:09:15] Gordon Strand: No.

[01:09:15] David Sheldon: So, so yeah. That was one of our more scarier moments, for sure. So, yeah.

[01:09:21] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Well, and then, and then we had to make the fish tickets a certain way and, and, well, I think we had to check a license or something. And I remember, I don't know if you remember, when the, the, the Fish and Game, I think, came and they boarded us with guns. 'Cause I remember I was writing a check out for someone. He brought it back the next week, and I had written M-A-R. And I was so scared, I guess I never finished the check. But it, they, it was something with the license, and they towed that guy back to town. Uh-

[01:09:58] David Sheldon: It would've been the troopers for that one.

[01:10:01] Marilyn Sheldon: It, well, was that when we had to go-

[01:10:02] David Sheldon: Which they would've had, which they would've had guns, but not Fish and Game doesn't carry guns.

[01:10:04] Marilyn Sheldon: Uh, well, is that when we had to go to court then?

[01:10:07] David Sheldon: I imagine, yeah. Yeah. I don't remember, remember the story, but-

[01:10:10] Marilyn Sheldon: We, yeah, we had to go to court. And I remember all our fishermen were there. And Gene had, was, he was a baby, holding him. And I had Brian by the hand. And, you know, we, they set a court date for us in November or something. And, and, uh, and then of course it was canceled. But I mean, all that time we worried.

[01:10:34] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[01:10:34] Marilyn Sheldon: The company got us a lawyer and everything. And I can't even remember. It was something to do with a license. I don't know. I don't know, Fish and Game was, they had a little camp down there by where we bought fish. And, and, uh, yeah, they were different, too. I used, we used to give 'em, the kids used to fish halibut, which was illegal off of, 'cause we had salmon in it. And you know, we'd give 'em halibut. And, and then I think they turned us in for having halibut. I don't know. It was, it was, there was always something you had to worry about.

[01:11:15] Marianne Forssblad: Hmm.

[01:11:15] Marilyn Sheldon: But we also had that, uh, you know, Bill and Betty, what do you call that?

[01:11:21] Marilyn Sheldon: The bar-

[01:11:21] David Sheldon: Ice barge ...

[01:11:22] Marilyn Sheldon: Ice barge down there that he towed down. And they were a Mormon couple, and they were, uh, they were wonderful. They gave out ice to the gillnetters, and to us. But she made food, and the gillnetters could come on there and, you know, use their facilities and do... She was wonderful. And, uh- And then, eventually she always made his birthday cake.

[01:11:52] Gordon Strand: Oh.

[01:11:52] Marilyn Sheldon: You know, 'cause it was in July. So he got his birthday cake. But yeah, I mean, there were things like that, you know?

[01:12:01] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[01:12:01] Marilyn Sheldon: I mean, there were really some wonderful people.

[01:12:03] Gordon Strand: People.

[01:12:04] Marilyn Sheldon: You know, during COVID I was in QFC, and this man came up to me, and we all had masks on, you know. And he said, "Aren't you Marilyn?" And I said, "Yes." And he said, "Well, I used to sell you fish."

[01:12:20] Marianne Forssblad: Hmm.

[01:12:20] Marilyn Sheldon: And you know, how he ever... I mean, that was years ago.

[01:12:24] Gordon Strand: Yeah, yeah.

[01:12:26] Marilyn Sheldon: And, uh, so yeah. It r- and you know, he was Davey in those days. He said a lot of people still call him Davey up there.

[01:12:35] Marianne Forssblad: Hmm.

[01:12:36] Marilyn Sheldon: And, and, uh, you know, it was something for the little kids to be walking around with life jackets on. And, and, uh, and, and when he was a baby, if there were other... There, if some of the older fishermen, their, their, their wives would be with them. I mean, like, they looked to me like they were in their 50s or 60s, and their families were grown. And those women would always come over and visit, 'cause it took so long to, you know, to empty their boats. And they used to change his diapers and, you know, they just loved- ... j- they loved the family atmosphere.

[01:13:14] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[01:13:14] Marianne Forssblad: So you have very positive memories-

[01:13:17] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, I do. Yeah, I do ...

[01:13:18] Marianne Forssblad: Of the fishing and the community.

[01:13:20] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah, we had a lot of really... And you know, people that we v- uh, visited over the years too, after they retired. And, um-

[01:13:32] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm

[01:13:32] Marilyn Sheldon: ... yeah. W- who, who was that, that one? Well, you probably don't remember. They were Norwegians that lived here, and they, they became good friends. They lived up on, um, um, I think it was 85th. But, uh, yeah, they were an older couple, and they used to have us up for lefse, you know.

[01:13:57] Gordon Strand: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[01:13:58] Marianne Forssblad: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:58] Marilyn Sheldon: And she'd fill it with the creams and all. And I remember, I think it was your first birthday party or, they came to our house. And yeah, I mean, we did have a lot of good friends. And, yeah, the, the Scandinavian people were, we had a lot of them in those days, and they, they were always really nice. Yeah.

[01:14:21] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah.

[01:14:22] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, and we used to have to bring their groceries out, and, you know, we did a banking for them. And, uh, we had the-

[01:14:31] Gordon Strand: You mean you'd bring them groceries from-

[01:14:33] Marilyn Sheldon: Town ...

[01:14:34] Gordon Strand: town.

[01:14:34] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah. Yeah,

[01:14:34] Gordon Strand: Okay.

[01:14:35] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, eventually it got to be so much that there was a certain person in, at the cannery that would do it.

[01:14:42] Gordon Strand: Oh.

[01:14:42] Marilyn Sheldon: And bring them down to the boat. And I remember once I left the groceries up at the- the top while I went down the ladder. When I came back, the eagles or whatever they were, like they had, crows had gotten in and eaten the bread.

[01:14:58] Gordon Strand: Oh.

[01:14:58] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, God. Oh, those were just different things that-

[01:15:03] Gordon Strand: Yeah

[01:15:03] Marilyn Sheldon: ... you know, it was, yeah, it was a lo- lot of fun. And, oh, one other story I have to tell is about you, is when he, when he was little, he and Peter Thorsinson were really good friends, and they played a lot. They were together a lot. And one time I got the grocery bill, and it had all these, like, 10, 15 cent charges on it. I said, "Well, what are these?" And he said, he said, "Well, when Peter goes through with me, he always says garge it. So I say garge it too." It was charge it, but- Oh. ... he said garge it.

[01:15:46] David Sheldon: We were charging candy.

[01:15:48] Marianne Forssblad: Wow.

[01:15:48] David Sheldon: Candy on the boat account. Yeah.

[01:15:51] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, I can still see that. He says-

[01:15:53] David Sheldon: I didn't know what we were doing ...

[01:15:54] Marilyn Sheldon: Peter says garge it, so I said-

[01:15:55] David Sheldon: You were saying ch- charge it. Yeah.

[01:15:59] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, 'cause, see, we all bought groceries at the same place. Well, no, I guess there were two stores.

[01:16:05] David Sheldon: Yeah.

[01:16:05] Marilyn Sheldon: Hammer's and the Trading Union, yeah.

[01:16:07] David Sheldon: Yeah.

[01:16:08] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[01:16:08] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah.

[01:16:09] Gordon Strand: Oh, great.

[01:16:10] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah.

[01:16:12] Gordon Strand: Well, thank you so much. This has been great.

[01:16:14] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah.

[01:16:14] Gordon Strand: Get a picture of a, a lot of years, huh? And, uh-

[01:16:17] Marilyn Sheldon: Yeah, a lot of years.

[01:16:19] Marianne Forssblad: And, an incredible community.

[01:16:21] Gordon Strand: Yeah.

[01:16:21] Marianne Forssblad: A really positive community.

[01:16:23] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, it was, yeah.

[01:16:25] Marianne Forssblad: And that is-

[01:16:25] Marilyn Sheldon: It was ...

[01:16:25] Marianne Forssblad: That is really good to hear, to know the history of it.

[01:16:29] Marilyn Sheldon: Oh, and then, and you know, well, this, we don't have to record this. But the other tenders, you know, we were, like, uh, Leonard and, and they lived in Ketchikan, and they worked for a different company, but they were wonderful. We used to sp- we used to go up, if we could, to see the Seahawk games there.

[01:16:51] Marianne Forssblad: Mm.

[01:16:51] Marilyn Sheldon: And, uh, you know, it, we were all friends. And if something happened to one of the tenders, the other te- even if they were with another company, they'd, you know, help each other, and-

[01:17:04] Marianne Forssblad: They assisted.

[01:17:04] Marilyn Sheldon: And we always had a phone in. Bob was always on for totals, and we had codes. And a lot of times the differ- depending where the other tenders were, they, I would, uh, communicate 'cause the canners couldn't hear him. And you know, we'd do that for each other. Yeah, I mean, we were in competition, but it w- it was friendly-

[01:17:27] Gordon Strand: Yeah

[01:17:27] Marilyn Sheldon: I think, for the most part.

[01:17:29] Marianne Forssblad: Yeah. What you have told us about is really strong loyalties.

[01:17:33] Marilyn Sheldon: Yes, that's a good way to put it. Yes. Yeah.

[01:17:36] Gordon Strand: Great. Well, thank you so much.

[01:17:38] Marilyn Sheldon: Well, I hope we did something.

[01:17:40] Gordon Strand: No.

[01:17:41] Marianne Forssblad: That was amazing. That's great.

[01:17:44] ​