Susan Haris: [0:05] Good morning.

Sandra Johnsen Tomlinson: [0:06] Good morning.

Susan: [0:06] My name is Susan Haris; and you are—

Sandra: [0:08] Sandra Johnsen Tomlinson.

Susan: [0:11] We are at the Nordic Museum in Seattle’s Ballard neighborhood. It is January 19, 2019. This is an interview for the Nordic American Voices [oral history] project. We are looking forward to learning a lot about you.

Gordon Strand: [0:30] My name is Gordon Strand, and I’ll be assisting Susan in this interview.

Susan: [0:42] Today, the purpose is to make sure that the stories of people who lived in the Pacific Northwest, Seattle, and a lot of times the Ballard museum area are not lost. We have a couple of goals here. We want to make this for you and your family, and we also want it to be on record for the museum. So, keep all those things in mind as you speak with us.

Sandra: [1:10] All right.

Susan: [1:10] Is there anything you would like to start your interview with that you want to make sure that we have immediately?

Sandra: [1:16] I guess my parents. They arrived at different times to the United States, first my father in 1924, because he joined five other siblings here in Seattle.

Gordon: [1:31] They were already here?

Sandra: [1:32] They were already here. And my mother immigrated to Ottawa, Canada, because the quota was full for the United States. She arrived in Ottawa in 1928, and she took the train across Canada to Vancouver, B.C., to join her brother, Leif, who was already there.

Gordon: [1:53] What year was that?

Sandra: [1:54] That was 1928. In order for my mother to be accepted by the United States, my father traveled up from Seattle to Vancouver, B.C., and married her, brought her back to Seattle, and they settled in Ballard.

Gordon: [2:10] So, they knew each other before?

Sandra: [2:11] Yes. They were actually engaged in Norway, just before my father left for the United States. In the meantime, my mother left Tromsø, Norway, and traveled down to Oslo, to join her sister, Jorgena. There, my mother worked as a baker and nanny to a professor’s family. Then she got the go-ahead to at least immigrate to Ottawa. As you heard from me, that’s the rest of their story as far as immigration.

Gordon: [2:47] Where did they come from?

Sandra: [2:48] They came from Tromsdalen. Tromsdalen is part of the Tromsø community. Tromsø is a city. It’s an island in the middle of a fjord. But the surrounding communities have different names, even though they do belong to Tromsø. My parents are from the mainland, and it’s called Tromsdalen. My father’s family were managers of a barrel factory. My grandfather was a cooper. My mother’s family were farmers. They had a large farm further south from Tromsdalen.

[3:30] My mother and father were eight years apart. I remember the first time he said he met my mother was in her pasture, and she was barefoot with cow poop between her toes. That’s my father for you. Always funny. Always the life of the party. My mother would say, “Yes, your father, some of his family thought they were above the common folk because they were businesspeople.” But I remember my mother saying, “We never went hungry. There was always food on the farm.”

Susan: [4:06] Can you remember specifically what made them decide they wanted to leave what sounds like almost an idyllic life, to try to come to the United States?

Sandra: [4:15] That’s a very good question. My father would hear from his brothers who were already in Seattle that there were good pickings over here in this country, especially the fishing industry. Times were tough in Norway, especially northern Norway. So, my father decided to join his brothers for a better life, a better opportunity. But in the meantime, before he emigrated, he did work in the barrel factory.

[4:44] But another job he had that I never knew about until I returned to Norway with them, was, he built the barracks for the miners up in Svalbard. You must be familiar with Svalbard, which is a Norwegian archipelago, a collection of Arctic islands between the North Pole and Norway. I was fascinated to learn that about my dad. But really, his true love was fishing, and that’s what he ended up doing when he arrived here in the United States.

Susan: [5:18] Was he a halibut fisherman?

Sandra: [5:19] Yes. He was a longliner. And I had no clue what a dangerous life that really is. They would fish in the winter. It wouldn’t be an idyllic summer, where you’d do salmon, or something like that. It was in the dead of winter. And I have a great affection for the Nordic Heritage Museum, because they gave me a glimpse of my dad and his work. I think they co-produced a documentary on longliners?

Gordon: [5:48] [Yes.]

Sandra: [5:49] I was at the Nordic, watching and looking at this exhibit, and I heard this voice, and it was my father’s voice. This was after he had passed away, many, many years ago. It was a kiosk showing this incredible film where my father gave the introduction. He was being interviewed on why he loved to fish. How that actually happened is, between the fishing seasons, my father would work at the fishermen’s dock. He was well-loved by his co-workers, because he always had a sense of humor. He was always the life of the party, a real cut-up. So, the crew, to honor him with such status, took his hard hat and soldered horns to emulate a Viking. My father was not amused. He was not happy with that.

[6:58] The people making this documentary on the longliners, the halibut fishermen, they were walking the docks. They wanted to interview a halibut fisherman. The fishermen: “Are you crazy? We don’t want any part of that. That’s ridiculous. We have work to do.” They asked, “Do you know of anybody who would be willing to do that?” And they said, “Ah, Fritz. You go talk to Fritz on the Shirley J. He loves to talk. He loves to share old times.”

Gordon: [7:34] Oh, that’s great.

Sandra: [7:35] Yeah. He was honored with this introduction. This documentary was premiered at the Bay Theater in Ballard. I was living in Oregon at the time, so I didn’t see it. I asked my mother about it, and she said, “Oh, it was good. But your father, when they were interviewing him, it was in the Shirley J, the boat’s gallery, and the cook was frying up halibut, and your father was talking about how he loved halibut, and his mother would cook the fish. But all the while he was talking, he had a mouthful of halibut!” [Laughter]

Gordon: [8:20] I don’t think we got their names.

Sandra: [8:22] Oh, okay. My father is Fridjof Johnsen.

Susan: [8:28] Could you spell that, please?

Sandra: [8:29] F-R-I-D-J-O-F. It’s a very old, old, Norwegian name. But of course, when he came through Ellis Island, they said, “Uh, let’s just call you Fritz. Next!” But what happened to my father when he went through Ellis Island, there was a German measles outbreak, and he was quarantined for three weeks.

Gordon: [8:57] Oh! At Ellis Island?

Sandra: [8:59] At Ellis Island. My mother is Astrid Helene Norberg. My mother immigrated through Ottawa, Canada. She was with a very good friend, Laila. Only two of my mother’s siblings immigrated, but they immigrated to Canada, whereas five of my dad’s immigrated to the United States.

Susan: [9:26] How long did it take them? How long did she have to stay in Canada before she could come to the U.S.?

Sandra: [9:30] With my mother, it was a year, but being that she married my dad, I think she could come along for the ride, which was really nice.

Susan: [9:39] What was life like for them when they first arrived in Ballard?

Sandra: [9:43] Well, all I can say is what my mother told me. My mother was surrounded by her husband’s relatives. At times, that wasn’t so much fun. But my mom really embraced the neighborhood, which was not just Norwegians, but Italians. So, she went beyond her heritage to have friends with other ethnic people.

Gordon: [10:13] Where did they first live?

Sandra: [10:15] They lived in Ballard.

Gordon: [10:17] Do you know what house?

Sandra: [10:18] I think it was the Fremont area at first, and during tough times they lost that house. My mother said that was a really dark time. When my father got his boat in 1944, economy-wise, things started looking better for the family. It’s interesting with my dad, he was captain of his boat at sea, and my mother was captain on the homefront. I think that arrangement preserved their marriage for over 50 years, because they were both very strong, independent people. Many things happened when my father was away at sea, what my mother would do, because then she could do basically anything that she wanted.

Susan: [11:13] Can you give us an example of what you’re talking about?

Sandra: [11:16] Okay. There are three biggies, I think. The first one, my brother was born in 1930, on the threshold—

Gordon: [11:27] And his name?

Sandra: [11:27] Fritz Jr.— Fritz Edward Johnsen. That was during the Depression, so times were tough. My mother didn’t drive, so they walked everywhere. I remember my mother saying they would walk to Edmonds on the railroad tracks to visit Agnes, her great friend who had a farm. Agnes had immigrated some time ago. I just couldn’t believe that. When I was born, in the middle 1940s, life started to be prosperous, and my mother had a son who was about 14, 15 years old, and had this young little girl. She thought, “I can’t walk.” And I was very sick as a child. My mother thought, “I have to learn how to drive.” She asked my brother, and he taught her how to drive. When my father came home, that was not approved of. There was a big fight. But my mother persevered.

[12:31] The biggest thing she did, when he was away at sea, she bought a house. [Laughter] Not far away. Just from 75^th in Ballard to a mile north, to the North Beach area, which is between Golden Gardens and Blue Ridge. So, we were closer to the water. Her farm in Norway was right on the Tromsø Fjord. And that’s where I learned how to swim. My father wasn’t too upset about that. He approved.

[13:08] Oh, my goodness, I’m thinking of another time. My father didn’t believe in life insurance, and my mother thought, “You have to have life insurance.” So, she acquired insurance for herself and her kids, and the insurance agent would always visit my mother when my father was away fishing, because he knew that my dad disapproved of that. Well, one time when he was visiting, my father arrived home unexpectedly. That insurance agent shot out the back door. He would always park in the back of the house, just in case. Those are my childhood memories of my family. They would be locking horns together, but I never felt upset about it. It was just my family.

Gordon: [14:04] So, he got that boat in—

Sandra: [14:07] 1944.

Gordon: [14:09] Before that, was he crewing?

Sandra: [14:11] He was crewing. That’s right. He would be up in Alaska, at the salmon fish traps up there. Actually, my brother fished with my dad. He started when he was 14 years of age. Always fishing.

Gordon: [14:28] How were they involved with the other part of the Nordic or Norwegian community?

Sandra: [14:34] Good question. They were active members of Nordlandslaget. That’s the northern Norway contingency. My mother was a founding member of Norse Home. She was ensconced in the Daughters of Norway. In fact, she was on the Ballard Hospital fundraising campaign. I didn’t know this, but where I was born on Market Street, where the Ballard Hospital was above business offices, that was not really meant to be a hospital. That was for offices.

[15:14] So, the community really didn’t have a specific building to built as a hospital. One of the fundraisers that my mother was on was making Hardanger dolls, sweet little beautiful dolls, about this big, and they would have the Hardanger bunad with the embroidery and the beadwork. I had that doll for a while. Sorry to say, I don’t have it anymore, but I have a photo of me holding the doll, which I hold dear. I’ll show you. There.

Gordon: [15:55] And that’s in the museum’s archives, right?

Sandra: [15:57] Yes, it is. My brother and I were 14 years apart. Here we are at North Beach. My brother had thick, dark hair like my mom, and I was a little towhead. When I grew up, I never thought I looked like my mom or my dad. But when I went back to Norway with them and saw the relatives… And there were so many, because my father had ten siblings, and my mother had ten siblings. And out of all their children and grandchildren, I found several of them that looked like me. So, I thought, “I do belong.”

[16:41] Also, when I went back with my parents, I knew that they were proud of their Norwegian heritage. I gleaned so many wonderful things from that. I remember a relative looking at my dad, and saying, “Well, what do you consider yourself, Fritz? First a Norwegian, and then an American?” And he didn’t hesitate for a second. “I consider myself an American.” Right away. That was a memory I still have.

Gordon: [17:13] When was the first time they went back to Norway?

Sandra: [17:17] 1966.

Gordon: [17:18] Really. All those years.

Sandra: [17:18] 40-some years. My grandparents on both sides died before I was born, but my mother’s mother, Inga Dolfine, still lived. When I would arrive home from school… In those days you could walk home. I was at Loyal Heights Elementary, and I’d walk home. My mother either would be in the garden or the kitchen, cooking. But this time, she was lying on the sofa, and she was very, very sad. She had a telegram in her hand, and she said that her mother had died. That’s another memory.

Gordon: [18:02] Did they communicate? Did they write regularly?

Sandra: [18:04] Yes, they did. My mother burned all those letters, even though they were in Norwegian. One letter, my father kept, and that was kind of unlike him. It was a letter written in Norwegian from his father. And I have a copy of that. I don’t know if the Nordic has that. If you would like that, I would certainly give it to you.

Gordon: [18:28] A copy would be great.

Sandra: [18:29] Sure. Okay, I’ll do that.

Gordon: [18:30] What did it say? Do you know?

Sandra: [18:32] That he missed him very much, and that he wished all was well. I had it translated, and I really should have brought it with me. I’ll have to do that.

Susan: [18:44] As you were growing up in your family, which sounds like it was very, very busy, do you have any special memories of Norwegian traditions that your family was happy to share with you?

Sandra: [18:55] Oh, yes. I think Christmas comes to mind. That is a big one. My mother’s Christmas would be baking the cookies and the julekake. She would start right after Thanksgiving, because some of the cookies you could freeze. The others that could not be frozen, she would have in the pantry in the hall closet, that my brother and I would raid from time to time.

[19:26] Another tradition was pickled herring. My mother would travel up to Vancouver, B.C. to join her brother, Leif, and they’d go down to the fishing docks, and they’d buy the herring off the boats. So, she’d make pickled herring from scratch. And she taught me that. But I haven’t done it. It was fun to do it when my mother was alive, but I didn’t really take up that tradition on my own.

Susan: [19:54] It sounds like it was a special memory between the two of you, too.

Sandra: [19:57] You know, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. Tradition, of course, of eating fish all the time, because my dad was a fisherman. And try as my parents might… My brother and I got so tired of that fresh fish. So tired. When my dad was away fishing, my brother and I would say, “Hot dogs, chili, here we come!” Now when I think of that, I have a deep regret. That time has passed. And my brother and I adore fresh fish. But it’s not the fresh fish that was offered to us all those years ago.

Susan: [20:41] So, Christmas was very special.

Sandra: [20:43] Christmas. Another thing, too, was singing. And my father would play the guitar. His favorite song was Barndoms minne fra Nordland, and I guess that is a man singing about his childhood, especially in northern Norway, where the land met the sea, and the high mountains. But to kind of modernize himself, he really liked the song, Hello, Dolly. So, he would play that, but he didn’t know all the lyrics. But he knew the melody. The whole time, it would just be, “Hello, Dolly, hello, Dolly, hello, Dolly.” [Laughter] My mother was a strong and reliant woman, but she was melancholy at times. She would recite, by memory, Norwegian poems. One I recollect was Henrik Ibsen’s Terje Vigen. We actually recorded her reciting it, and my father, too, in singing.

Gordon: [21:54] What was special about that, do you know?

Sandra: [21:57] Terje Vigen?

Gordon: [21:59] Yeah.

Sandra: [22:00] It’s very sad. During the Napoleonic Wars, Britain had a blockade. Terje Vigen was a southern Norwegian. His family was starving. So he risked his life to row to Denmark to get food for his family, but he was arrested, and he was thrown in prison. By the time he returned home, he found out that his wife and child had died. So, you can see how sad that was. And when my mother would read it, the tears would just come. It was interesting; when I was thinking about this interview today, and thinking about my mother and that recording, and the story of it, I started to cry.

Gordon: [22:50] It must have had some special significance to her, then. Was it just the story?

Sandra: [22:56] I think it was the story, and the poetry. My mother was into poetry.

Gordon: [23:04] Okay. Wow.

Sandra: [23:06] I do have the Terje Vigen book in Norwegian, of course, with illustrations by a famous Norwegian painter. I can’t remember his name right now.

Susan: [23:20] What was school like for you? Did you speak English when you got to school, or were you learning it as you started?

Sandra: [23:30] I should have learned to speak Norwegian when I was very young. I remember saying to my parents, “Speak English, not Norwegian.” I remember many a time, my parents would have arguments about how to pronounce something in English. And my mother was pretty good. I remember one word was “handkerchief,” and my father insisted it was “hankerheef.” But my parents had the last word when that was concerned. When I went to the University of Washington, I took Norwegian classes. Guess who helped me through that time? [Laughter]

Susan: [24:17] Did you major in Norwegian in school?

Sandra: [24:19] No, I majored in drama.

Gordon: [24:22] Talk about your school, especially at Ballard, too. You were a student at Ballard.

Sandra: [24:26] Yes. I wasn’t a scholar. But what I enjoyed, probably on my father’s side, is I liked to sing, and I liked to pretend. I took drama classes, and I enjoyed it immensely. My mother, who was an at-home seamstress, would make my costumes for various theatrical productions.

Gordon: [24:55] Talk about that. It was the days of Earl Kelly.

Sandra: [24:58] The days of Earl Kelly. Yeah. At Ballard High School. I think he taught there for 35 years. There is a theater dedicated to his name. He fulfilled my high school experience, because I really felt that I contributed something. It was nerve-wracking at times to be onstage, but at least I had someone else’s words I could memorize, not like talking today. And this is me.

Gordon: [25:29] Yeah. What shows were you in?

Sandra: [25:30] I was in Damn Yankees and Annie Get Your Gun. I did several productions at the University of Washington: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off, a melodrama called Streets of New York. That’s when I decided to quit smoking, is when I really had to sing. It was a difficult time, but it was a good time.

[26:01] Speaking about my mother, being an at-home seamstress, when I was very young, we didn’t have a lot of money, but she was so gifted with her sewing abilities. She would get an adult wool coat from the Salvation Army, and she would cut it down to size and make a coat, a hat, a purse, and a muff for me. So, I was warm, and very well-dressed as a child.

Gordon: [26:35] Yes, she had a lot of skill.

Susan: [26:37] What about your brother? What was he like at this time? You said he was fifteen years older than you?

Sandra: [26:43] Fourteen. Almost fifteen, though. My brother thought I was terribly spoiled. He was actually another parent, so I looked at him with different eyes. But as we aged, now he’s definitely my brother. [Laughter] He was away a lot, since he was older. He joined the Navy Reserves, and the Navy Medical Corps, and was stationed in New York City. When he came home, he was home just a little bit from the Navy, and then he got married, and off he went again. But now we’re really close, and I’m glad that we’re still alive, so we can foster this relationship now. He’s retired, and he’s on Camano Island. But he would have a totally different picture to tell you of his childhood than mine.

Susan: [27:42] Are there any specific memories from childhood that you want to make sure are part of this record that we should know about? It sounds like you had a very talented mother who really was capable of providing not only a wonderful home, but her creativity came through to you in your drama and your interest in the arts.

Sandra: [28:05] Yes.

Susan: [28:05] And he was a talented fisherman, which is pretty incredible.

Gordon: [28:10] Don’t forget, he sang, too.

Susan: [28:16] [Laughter] So, you had pretty extraordinary parents.

Sandra: [28:20] I did. When I went back to Norway, their first time they returned to the “old country” as they called it— my father, when he would speak Norwegian, it was like opening up a time capsule. Because when he emigrated, he spoke a certain dialect. Well, that was still with him. My relatives in Norway would just howl and laugh. He sounded so funny. But before my mother emigrated, she worked in Oslo. From northern Norway to southern Norway, she was influenced by the Oslo dialect. So, she was a little bit more refined. So, they didn’t laugh at her too much.

Gordon: [29:02] What was that first trip to Norway like for you?

Sandra: [29:05] That was pivotal, because I started to gather a connection to the old country, and to the relatives. Being that I’m actually the youngest of that time, I identified not so much with my cousins, but my cousin’s children. They have now been coming over and visiting, and they speak English, which is fantastic. That really helped. I was so impressed with the beauty of Norway. And we were always outside— hiking, berry-picking, camping. This would rival Starbucks— I remember my parents’ camp coffee. I can’t remember what they called it in Norwegian, but you’d have this old copper pot on the fire outside, and let the water boil, and then just throw in the grounds, and let it sit for a while and settle. That was delicious.

[30:16] There were some embarrassing moments, though, when I was there. We had to split up. The relatives, of course, would house us. My father stayed with his side of the family, and my mother and I stayed with her side of the family. We’d get together and do various things. I tried to speak Norwegian, I really did. At that time, I was taking lessons at the university. So, I would say something, and people would just kind of look at me. I knew I was right. I’d gather with my mother at the end of the day, and I’d say, “Mom, this is what happened, and this is what I said.” She would just roar with laughter.

[31:08] I remember that the relatives gave a party for us on Fjellheisen, which is this mountain resort. The only way you could get up there was cable car. So, we all traveled up there by cable car. There were hundreds of people. Just so many. There was a reception line. This wonderful relative, this young woman, came through, and she said to me in Norwegian, [Norwegian]. And I thought she said, “I feel very fortunate to be here and to meet you.” I looked at her and said, [Norwegian]. And I wasn’t saying, I was “fortunate.” I said I was “pleasant.” She was saying, “It’s so pleasant to be here. I said, “No, no; I am pleasant.” [Laughter] On subsequent visits to Norway, I have never come across her again. I don’t know if I made a definite and permanent impression.

Susan: [32:20] May I ask, how do you and Gordon know each other?

Sandra: [32:22] It started off in junior high school. [Laughter] We were in class together, and then Ballard High. We went to the University of Washington together. We share our Norwegian heritage. And Gordon’s dad was a fisherman.

Gordon: [32:38] Yeah. Very much Ballardites.

Sandra: [32:42] It’s interesting; both Gordon and I lived away from Seattle for a while, but then we returned.

Gordon: [32:51] Yeah. Talk about meeting Rich.

Sandra: [32:54] Oh, yes. Meeting “Eastern Washington Richard,” from Pullman. [Laughter] A Cougar, not a Husky. It was a blind date, but it turned out to be a good one. When I would talk about Rich, my father said, “His last name?” “Tomlinson.” “Tomlinson. Tomlinson. What kind of a name is that?” [Laughter] And then had this little glimmer in his eye. “Tommeliten!” That’s how could identify with Tomlinson. And I guess Tommeliten is from the nursery rhyme, “Tom Thumb.”

[33:44] But there’s a connection with that incident that brought tears to my eyes. It was so unexpected. I traveled with Gordon a couple of years ago. We went to Iceland together— Rich and I and Colleen and Gordon. We flew to Norway, and went way up north to Kirkenes, and took the Hurtigruten down to Bergen. But when we arrived in Kirkenes, we had to board a touring bus. I had my ticket, and it had my name on it. I gave it to the bus driver.

[34:25] He was looking over my ticket. I was wondering what he was looking at. He said, “Tomlinson. Tomlinson.” And then he said, “Tommeliten!” Tears just welled up in my eyes. I was just so shocked. Of course, he was dismayed, having a reaction like that from me. I couldn’t tell him. I smiled and said, “It’s okay.” I took my ticket and sat down. That was a profound moment for me. It was just kind of an unexpected connection, but very dear.

Gordon: [35:10] So, you had a child.

Sandra: [35:13] Yes. We had Inga Britt Roseanne Tomlinson. She is named after my grandmothers on my side, and grandmothers on Richard’s side. Inga was my mother’s mother. Britt is actually Brita. That was my dad’s mother. The Tomlinson grandmothers were Rose and Anne. So, we just wanted her to have those names that she could carry through, that she could have a connection to her past. And she went to school with your daughter, Gordon, which was very, very nice.

Gordon: [36:03] So, you maintained a lot of your Norwegian traditions, didn’t you, in your own family?

Sandra: [36:08] Oh, yes. Christmas, again. A big Christmas Eve dinner, and opening up presents. Going to church and singing the old Norwegian carols. Oh, yes.

Gordon: [36:22] And you were part of the ladies chorus for a while, weren’t you?

Sandra: [36:25] Yes, I was. It’s really interesting with my mother. My mother wasn’t part of the Norwegian chorus. But one of my father’s relatives was a long-term member. So, my mother wasn’t too enamored that I was with the Norwegian Ladies Chorus because of that connection. [Laughter] I know, I’m getting into really deep, personal stuff here. When we moved from the heart of Ballard to North Beach, my mother was very active with Ballard First Lutheran Church. But since we moved just a mile north, she thought, “Let’s join Our Redeemer’s Lutheran Church.” But my father’s relatives said, “Well, you know they’re just a bunch of Swedes there.” [Laughter]

Susan: [37:23] Do you have anything else over here you’d like to share with us? I see something in your hand?

Sandra: [37:29] Right here? This is just kind of a… This was a good thing. I just started writing down some notes that I could remember, just to get it on paper, because of my drama education, I felt comfortable reciting the written word. I thought this would help me remember certain instances. This is very good for me to do, because now with this recording and these notes, I can share them with my daughter and my granddaughter, Helene, who is named after my mother. That’s her middle name. Actually, I wanted to give Helene a nickname. I call her “Helly,” which is a Norwegian nickname. Oh, she didn’t like that at all. But I’m going to try it again when she’s older. That might be acceptable then. Here’s a story. Do we have time?

Gordon: [38:30] Oh, absolutely.

Sandra: [38:31] Oh, my goodness. Thank you for mentioning these notes. My father’s oldest brother, Christian, had a farm in South Kingston. We would visit them often, because Christian’s neighbors had a beach nearby with old fishermen’s cabins on them. We were welcome to use them, so my father would take his fishing boat with the whole family. We’d go up the Sound, and we’d drop anchor and row ashore. We would have fun on the beach— beachcombing, fishing, swimming.

[39:11] Usually, the women were in the cabins making food for everybody. My father had this habit, and he did it at home, too. He would come in the kitchen, and he would kind of look around and see what the women were cooking, if he could grab a little snack. Well, my mother got really tired of this. So, she thought she was going to do a trick. She took a shot glass and filled it full of apple cider vinegar, and she placed it on the kitchen table. Sure enough, when the women were in the kitchen, busy, my father casually comes strolling in, stops, eyes that shot glass, thinking it’s whiskey, and shot it down. He spewed it right out. The women were laughing so hard, they didn’t mind cleaning up afterwards. But my father didn’t venture into the kitchen again. And that’s my parents’ relationship. [Laughter]

Susan: [40:13] They sound like really interesting people. They do.

Sandra: [40:15] [Laughter] Yeah. It was a drama. It was a comedy. But I remember seeing something that was very tender between them. My mother could clean fish like nobody’s business. Very adept. She would be down on my dad’s boat, cleaning salmon side-by-side with him, and then they’d have a cup of coffee together. I took a picture that I should really give to the Nordic, of them being just covered with fish scales, enjoying a mug (mugging up, as they called it) of coffee, and laughing and enjoying each other’s company.

Susan: [40:55] Do you have that picture?

Sandra: [40:56] Yes. Not with me today.

Susan: [40:59] That sounds like the kind of thing that should be included.

Sandra: [41:03] Thank you. My father’s boat is no more. It went down off Orcas Island. So, all I have are these photos and my memory. But it was a time… There weren’t recreational vehicles at that time. We had this 57-foot wooden boat that we could go in as a family. Good memories.

Susan: [41:33] Is there anything else that you want to make sure we include?

Sandra: [41:36] Let’s see here… Oh, okay. My mother was a very proud grandmother. She had three grandchildren. It was my brother’s boys, Martin and Erik, and of course, my daughter, Inga. Before Inga was born, with the two young grandsons, she would read stories. Her favorite and their favorite, especially Erik, was Beatrix Potter’s Peter Rabbit. When my mother would be reading, she would kind of forget her English and have Scandinavian tones. Peter Rabbit had a cousin named Benjamin. She would pronounce it “Ben-yahmen.” Little Erik would be so thrilled. “Oh, grandma, grandma, read about “Ben-yahmen Bunny!” We thought that was charming. Very charming.

[42:47] When my mother would baby-sit Inga, they formed a long-lasting bond with one another, and I value that. My daughter talks about her grandmother to this day. There is one thing I found out about that bond, and maybe why it was so strong. My daughter and I were shopping in the grocery store, and we came in the dairy section, and Inga said, “See that huge tub of Cool Whip?” And I said, “Yes.” “Do you know that Gram used to sit me on the sofa, and I could have that whole tub of Cool Whip, and we could watch soap operas together?” [Laughter]

Susan: [43:35] Oh, that’s a great memory.

Sandra: [43:36] Right. So, that memory my daughter shared with me many years later. I just thought, “Oh, okay.”

Susan: [43:45] Unique.

Sandra: [43:46] Unique. Let’s see here… Oh, okay. Another thing with my mother, and I think this is from the old country, you go out in the forest and you pick berries. That’s a really strong tradition. Hers was the native wild blackberry. Not the Chinese blackberry that is invasive here. They’re really big. This was the small, tiny one that you could only find in the forest. So, we would travel a long, long way to scour through the forest, sometimes trespassing, I’m sure, to get those ever-elusive wild blackberries. She would make blackberry pies, just delicious.

Gordon: [44:41] Yeah. Wow. I was interested in whether your folks talked about, or you heard about the experiences of their family in Norway during the war? Did they have communication?

Sandra: [44:58] That’s a really good question. I’m not sure about the communication part of it. But I know my mother’s farm and my dad’s house, the Germans lived there. And from other relatives, I heard of the time the Tirpitz, the German battleship, was bombed by the Americans. They remember that very well. When we went back there, we could see those old German barracks that were on my mother’s farm property. But no, I don’t remember anything other than that. I know they were very concerned. One thing that my mother said, that I didn’t realize— my dad was a fisherman, and she didn’t want him to go fish off California because of the Japanese. So, I found that very interesting. But he did anyway.

Gordon: [46:10] Alaska in many ways was more dangerous.

Sandra: [46:12] Oh, that’s right. Yes.

Gordon: [46:15] Because they were off the coast. They occupied Attu Island.

Sandra: [46:19] That’s right.

Gordon: [46:24] Susan, any other questions?

Susan: [46:27] I am finding your interview fascinating.

Sandra: [46:30] Well, here’s another one, as far as language was concerned. Oh, my dad. One of his fishing trips… This was in the 1970s. It was summer, and he was coming home to port, and he was going through the San Juan Islands. He discovered these two lovely women stranded in their yacht. The motor wasn’t working, so he towed them into Seattle. Well, they were delighted. I guess they were lovely ladies. They gave my dad a big bottle of whiskey. He just thought that was really great. Then one of the ladies said, “You know, my husband is a hydroplane driver. The hydroplane races are going to be next month, and Fritz, you’re more than welcome to come down to the pit, and I’ll introduce you to my husband.”

[47:19] Of course, my dad was relating this to us. We said, “What was the man’s name?” He said, “Oh, I don’t know. I’m not interested. It was Monty, or something.” And we just thought… And it was Bill Muncey, the legendary hydroplane racer. But my dad was happy with this big bottle of whiskey. He wasn’t interested in the hydroplane pits at all.

Gordon: [47:44] Oh, that’s funny.

Susan: [47:49] I think you’ve given us a wonderful interview. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to do those notes, to make sure you really included everything that was important.

Sandra: [47:59] Well, thank you. I must say, I appreciate it, too, because it finally forced me to discipline myself to put it on paper, because I was coming for this interview today.

Gordon: [48:13] Well, this will be so great for Inga and the family.

Sandra: [48:17] Well, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Susan: [48:20] And that’s our purpose, really. It’s twofold— family, and museum. I think the information you’ve given us works very well for both of those purposes. So, thank you for being so well-prepared.

Gordon: [48:34] I have one other… You and I both grew up in Ballard. My recollection is, it was very Scandinavian. If it wasn’t a Norwegian, it was a Swede you knocked into, whether we went to school… And it’s changed. What do you feel the change has been?

Sandra: [48:54] I guess a closeness. Gordon, you’re wonderful because you have all the Seahawks games at your house, and we gather together. But with my parents, they were always entertaining. They belonged to a bridge club for 25 years. Maybe there was a Scandinavian couple. But there were people from Scotland; people from Canada. My mother was very close to Maisie Boitano— the Italian family, the Boitanos here.

[49:29] I guess the mother Boitano lost her son in World War II, I think. Of course, everyone went to visit her, to pay their respects. Maybe it was at a funeral service, and I was just an infant. My mother was telling me that Mrs. Boitano was swept away by sadness, but when she saw me as a little infant, she said to my mother, “Oh, may I see your baby? May I hold your baby?” That’s when she smiled for just a little bit. And my mother related that story to me.

Gordon: [50:08] Yeah. So, she made connections with a lot of people in the community.

Sandra: [50:15] A lot of people. In fact, when I was born, my mother became very, very ill. She was in Ballard Hospital for two weeks. So, who was going to take care of the baby when my father was out fishing? It was Maisie Boitano.

Gordon: [50:33] You said you were ill as an infant, too.

Sandra: [50:35] Oh, yes. That was so hard on my family. My dad didn’t have medical insurance. I started being hospitalized at Children’s on Queen Anne Hill. Of course, I transferred over to the one in Laurelhurst or Sand Point area. I was very ill for nine, ten years. I was even held back in elementary school, because I had missed so much school. I was tutored for a long time. I just remember my parents… I’d be hospitalized time and time again.

[51:16] But my parents were connected to a wonderful doctor here in Ballard, Hans Lehmann. This was before he became a heart specialist. He would come to the house and do home visits. He even recommended my brother to go into physical therapy, because he could tell that was an opportunity close at hand, to make the best of it. It was a new medical profession that was up and coming. Fortunately, after all those years of being so sick… And they didn’t know what to do with me. I just could not fight infection. Probably, I think I had juvenile arthritis, an auto- immune disease. But I matured, and it just disappeared. It has returned with a vengeance, just joint pain. It’s just part of the deal. You just push through it. I’ve been very fortunate that I can still garden.

Gordon: [52:24] It’s been wonderful, Sandy. Thank you so much.

Susan: [52:27] Thank you.

Sandra: [52:27] You’re welcome. Thank you.